Traditional Hunting

[Birddog 1]

I would like to know what YOU traditionalists are going to hunt with when they tell you cant use lead anymore? They are not going to take our guns away[second amendment ] but there isn't anything in the books about our ammunition.  You might have to go to the dark side and shoot sabots like I have to in order to get out in the woods to hunt pigs and deer with your Hawkins 1/66 barrel :-( {might have to get a new barrel} and the sad thing is there is only 1 company making non lead bullets for a muzzle loader that I know of and they just tossed gas on the fire and were no help what so ever on the lead ban. The lead ban is going to have a ripple affect on all hunting center fire also so all traditionalists need to ban with others and...................I cant say it with out getting booted maby.



NIm

[Semisane]

Lead ball in the bore, copper balls in the pocket. 

[flintlock]

I'm going to ignore it and go hunting...We can't get a game warden out here when we have trespassers and poachers...I doubt if they are going to be running around trying to see what type projectile you have in your gun...

I've got enough lead to last my lifetime, with my molds I'll never run out of ammo...

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Hollow based copper conical? Copper round ball? After all, The lead round ball never touches the rifling, thats the patches job.

Be expensive, but look what we pay for gas.

[Ironwood]

NIM, Why don't YOU guys that shoot those imitation muzzleloaders and centerfire firearms boycott that one company you are talking about.  After all you are the ones that keep buying that stuff.  Not us.  Maybe that will change their tune.  No business no voice!  Then get out and vote!  Don't come in here trying to rub our nose in it! 

If I'm wrong about your intent I'm sorry.  This is my last word on the subject! 

[Saloon slug]

Califonia's lead ban directly affects me. And yes I did write and call to try to get it put down. So if I want to go pig hunting up in condor country where all the pigs are I will have to use the Barnes sabots. Good thing down here in San Diego county the ban doesn't apply.

[Birddog 1]

Ha Ironwood I don't own one of those imitation muzzle loaders like you have stated I have 5 different Hawkens rifles from flint 50 1/70, 50 1/66 ,50 1/48 ,45 1/48 and a 54 1/48 I am hopping that out of 5 of them I can get one to  shoot a Barnes sabot where I can take a animal cleanly I don't need a IMITATION muzzle loader. And I have written and called also. Now as far as loading a lead rb and having Barnes bullets in my pocket they can MAKE you discharge your rifle and collect the bullet $1000 fine not worth it.
And now they are talking about the meat donated to the food bank's are tinted of lead so Ironwood the lead ban might jump up and bight you in the @ss over there in Texas.
Now Saloon dog watch out rummer has it they sent several condors south of you and will expand the lead zone and several to Arizona.
This is why we ALL need to get together Ironwood real muzzle loaders, imitation muzzle loaders and centerfire shooters

[Saloon slug]

No they havent moved them down here yet. If they do well we will just have to hunt them with lead free ammo .

[flinter54]

I agree with Flintlock, I will also continue to use the lead sphere in all my long guns. Although it is a serious issue we need to pay attention too, and derail in some way, I think it is absolutely laughable. Geesh you we wont be able to use split shots when we take our kids fishing. What in the world is happening to this country?

My 2 cents

[captchee]

 if the stupidity  that grows ramped in California spreads then i will simple go to a no lead  pewter.
 If you go to the many of the casting foundry  sites you will find a list of materials  that  can be cast in rb moulds that will pass the required laws .
Low 281 or 281-338  could possibly be used  and will meet to less the 1% requirements as they both have 0 lead
 Now how they would shoot ?? I don’t know,  but it would simply be a mater of working up a  load for the given projectile.
 I can also cast RB’s of solid brass if need be NP   
The trick however would be to find a patch that would hold the brass and not let it slip  during it run down the bore . But even this shouldn’t be to much of a problem  if you checkered the ball .

[flintlock]

Lead is a very soft metal, you can scratch it with your fingernail...When you shoot, the lead resists moving, so it "squats", this helps seal the gases behind the patch and ball, the patch does not do this by itself...So lead is the perfect material for the job...

[captchee]

All metals do that to some existent flintlock , the softer the more  the reaction takes place .
 Also  there is and has been a lot of discussion about just how much a lead ball actually arbitrates ”sorry spelling “  in the barrel  .
 The main + to lead is  that its heavy and its soft .
 Being soft the patch material  more easily grips the ball , holding it in place.
This is seen when you pull a ball that has not been shot and the weave of the fabric can be seem imprinted to the ball .

 Many folks believe wheel weights should not be used in  a rifle . Believing that the harder material will  lead the  rifling more easily . This is not true  really for RB shooters as the ball never touches the rifling unless  the integrity of the patch is compromised .
 Lead alloys like wheel weights also have a + in that the penetrate much better then soft lead . But they also can slip the patch .
 This however can be solved if the issue arises by simply running the ball across a file to imprint checkering to  the ball which allows the patch to hold the ball  properly in the patch .

 I would agree that lead is the best  material for what we do . The fears  IMO are un substantiated  and is not a factor unless the lead round is breaching the integrity limits of lead IE around 2200 fps . that’s the point lead starts to lose its ability to stay together .
  The real danger from lead is the corrosion that can grow on lead , that’s what will poison you , not the lead itself .
 The issue with the condor is as I understand it , they have a gullet . When lead gets picked up  its stays  in there to help grind up their food  as such they  like water fowl get lead poisoning.
 IMO this  issue is really more of an environmental one more then an issue with shooters .
 This  I believ is also backed by many major bullet manufactures who have found that modern muzzleloading folks are willing to pay big bucks for a dozen bullets   .
 I mean really how many of us are willing to pay 20 -30 bucks a box for cartridges ? Not me , that’s why I reload  my own .
 But with  muzzleloading folks seem to be willing to pay this cost for half the amount of  cartridges . So it behooves the bullet manufactures to support this move as it will raise their consumer base .

 Many of you may  not  have noticed that  lead shot is not included in this bann

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

captchee,Or anyone else who might know..... What temp does brass/copper melt at?  If i have the proper heat i'd love to try to mold some copper round balls for my .54 and like you say, checker it or even just rough the balls up with some sand paper.

[quickdtoo]

That would depend on the actual metal composition, but here's some basic melting points.

Tim

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html

[Wynn]

Has anyone tried casting RB from Bismuth?

[captchee]

bismuth can be used but its had doesnt exspand and simply breaks apart  when hitting a hard object .

 brass can be used but you need a hobby foundry to  do melt it .
 i use one from these folks to make all my brass and silver parts for the rifles i make] can be used but its had doesnt exspand and simply breaks apart  when hitting a hard object .

 brass can be used but you need a hobby foundry to  do melt it .
 i use one from these folks to make all my brass and silver parts for the rifles i make

  http://www.foundry101.com

 you will also need steal molds for the round ball .
 you could do them one at a time but it would take for ever . or you could carfuly sand cast  multiple  balls using  swagged lead balls as a  blank for sand casting

[Ladobe]

Over on one of the MLing boards there has been a lot of playing around with alternates because of the Republik's latest BS lead ban.   Glass marbles, wooden balls, rubber no-bounce balls, etc.   Not all are available for every bore size at present - in fact they are all pretty limited with only a couple of bore sizes of each so far.  While some might show some promise, most failed miserably even for just target shooting let alone hunting.   

I lived and hunted in the last main CA stronghold of the condor's back in the late 60's to mid 70's (Carmel, Monterey County), and I'm not convinced there really is condor's in all the areas they put under the lead ban.  There are less than 150 condors total currently (April 2008) in the wild between the Grand Canyon and the coastal mountains of CA and Baja, so the CA ban includes historic range in that state whether they actually have wild condors flying there too or not.

I saw the error of my ways and got out of CA in 1976, and won't be ever even visiting that state again.   But they are migrating to and taking over many other states with their foolishness now days.   Like has been said, with 175 pounds of lead and full sets of molds for every bore I shoot (with backups) I'll be shooting lead until I die.