38 S&W / .380 RIMMED

[WILD_WEASEL]

     While prowling my favorite message boards I came across a fellow selling surplus .380 Mk 2z (38 S&W) ammo manufactured in India for the Enfield No.2 Mk1** revolver.  Since I’ve not seen surplus .380 in over 10 years I jumped at buying x4 boxes (12 rounds per box) @ $10 a box.  This is 178gr FMJ traveling at a whopping 700fps, Corbon step aside, lol.  This prompted me to get my Enfield out of the backof the gun safe and take it to the range.  At 15 yrds this ammo hits about 4” low and grouped into 2”, not bad.  The original Mk 1 round for this revolver used a 200gr LRN bullet traveling at 600fps, Buffalo Bore stand aside…
     Some time ago I came across some 190gr cast LRN bullets (sized to .359) intended for the 35 Remington.  With 2.4gr of Unique these hit point of aim at 15 yrds, coming close to the original loading of 600fps.  Telling me my revolver never had the sights re-regulated for the lighter faster round.  Remington and Winchester factory 38 S&W ammo features a 145gr LRN bullet at 700fps, which hits at the same point as the Mk 2 ammo.
     At this point a note on brass is important, Winchester and Starline brass is made specific to the 38 S&W and will only chamber in revolvers manufactured for the 38 S&W, while Remington 38 S&W brass/ammo will actually chamber in a revolver designed for the 38 Special (slightly smaller case diameter).  The Winchester brass is noticeably thicker than the Star brass, causing a slight bulge if seating bullets too deep, while the Starline brass, with less internal taper, does not manifest this problem.
     Since I’m out of 190gr bullets (should have bought more when I had the chance) my current plinking reload is 3 gr of Unique under a 158gr LRN @ ≈680fps in a Starline 38 S&W case, (the Winchesters cases are OK too if you don’t mind the small bulge).  These too shoot about 4” low at 15yrds.  Given these bullets are sized to .358” not the recommended .361” for the 38 S&W they still group well.
     I may go dig around the machine shop at work to see if I can find a piece of aluminum stock that I can fashion a lower front sight from to bring up the Point of Impact (POI).  But at the end of the day is always satisfying to take out an Old War Horse and put it through its paces.

[stimpylu32]

WW

You have to love when a plan comes together , at $.83 per shot for factory ammo its good to find a way around that . 

stimpy

[coyotejoe]

I once sold a nice old Webley to a friend I worked with. I also gave him one 50 round box of ammo I had handloaded and for which I had regulated the sights. He shot up the ammo and then sold the gun to some relatives in Arkansas who were really pissed at him because it wouldn't fire! They filed the hammer face and eventually got it to fire. As he was telling me this I realized what they must have done. It was marked ".380" so they had bought a box of .380 ACP ammo and no wonder it didn't fire. I guess they modified the hammer  to get enough firing pin protrusion to reach the .380 ACP primers but who knows where the bullet went! No wonder they tell funny stories about Arkansas! 

[Brithunter]

Thought you might like to hear this story about the 380MK11Z. I had a very nice Colt Official Police revolver with 5" barrel made for the 38-200 cartridge which of course is the earlier loading using the 200 grain lead bullet. I brought soem surplus 380 Mk11Z ammo and fired at Bisley on the advancing man range at 6 yards the bullets were bouncing off the plywood target then one didn't clear the muzzle. The report was funny so I stopped and looked and the bullet was sticking out the end of the barrel. We managed to carefully drive it back down the bore and out of the barrel.

    I then checked the bore dimensions as best i could and found out that the bore was very tight measuring 0.356" and the chambers were longer and as it turned out were the length of the Colt new Police cartridge so I cut soem Norma 38Spl cases down to length and stamped a 1 on the headstamp to identify them and loaded them with 122 grain Truncated cone bullets I had for my 9mm auto. Turned out these loads shot beautifully with virtually no recoil and to POA at 25 yards!! Loaded them using the 9mm die for bullet fit. Of course I lost that lovely pistol in the ban. Top of the barrel was roll marked Colt Official Police and I later acquired a Colt Police Positive in 39 spl a Duo tone to go with it also lost in the ban

   We researched it's serial number and it turns out it was made in 1955  why we have no idea but I assume it was meant for eitehr Hong Kong or India and somehow ended up in England unproofed so I had a trip to the London proof house with it to make it legal. It seems that the American made revolvers like this had tighter bores than the Britihs 380 design called for, S&W used 38 spl specs it seems and Colt, well this one was even tighter but it shot commercial 38 S&W ammo well which is where I got the cases from until I modded the special cases that is. 

[WILD_WEASEL]

Brithunter,

Thanks for the story.  I've read about the MkIIz ammo having a tendency to get stuck in the barrel and am ever vigilant for this when I shoot my Enfield No.2Mk1**.  I was also lucky enough to meet Ian Skennerton at a gun show a few years back and bought his book on Enfield revolvers which he autographed.  I have a canvas flap holster for my revolver and am looking for the correct cleaning rod, with broad arrow proof, and ammo pouch that holds two boxes of ammo.  Do you know of any sources on your side of the pond that might have these?  I also have two Enfield rifles, a No.1Mk3* Indian manufacture and a No.4Mk1 manufactured in the UK. 

[Brithunter]

Well there is a Gunshow/gunfair later this month at Bisley camp and I will down there so will keep my eyes open and ask a few dealers I know who might carry this sort of thing.

[WILD_WEASEL]

Brithunter,

I greatly appreciate your looking into this for me.  I've been looking at gun shows,here in California, and am coming up dry. 

Cheers,
George