Author Topic: Parent case and kids ?? (Read 1484 times)

stimpylu32 · « **on:** April 18, 2008, 12:55:53 PM »

Does anyone know of a list of parent cases and all the rounds that have come from them , either in print or on the net , the reason i ask is that i want to work up a spread sheet with as many rounds that i can . I know that the 30/06 - 270 - 25/06 - ect , and the 250 Sav - 22/250 , but i want a complete list or as close to complete as i can find .

This is more for a refrence than anything else but who knows were it will lead .

stimpy

Sweetwater · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2008, 01:04:46 PM »

I have seen a cartridge cross reference somewhere - basically X cartdridge can be made from XX case - though not necessarliy a parent case situation. I think it was in an old handloading manual my Dad had. I'll see if I can't scratch it up. I do remember it was quite an eye opener in that there were cases in that list that I'd never heard of. (and probably still are)

Regards,
Sweetwater

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2008, 01:13:28 PM »

Wiki, Ammoguide and ReloadBench usually show parent cartridges. Chuck Hawks has a page of different parent cartridges too.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/great_cartridge_families.htm

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2008, 01:24:21 PM »

Thanks guys

What i am doing is to make up a 3 ring binder with as many case drawings as i can find and i want to put them in some kind of order . Also saving them to files for furture refrence .

stimpy

Kurt L · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2008, 05:56:53 PM »

Handloaders guide to cartridge conversions has all the info you are looking for also.
maybe you can find an old one cheap or ?

jhalcott · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2008, 05:57:21 AM »

Stimpy, isn't the .45acp a "kid" of the old 30-06??

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2008, 06:19:03 AM »

The 45 auto has a slightly larger rim and body than the 06 so I'm not sure about that match up .

stimpy

yooper77 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2008, 06:07:56 AM »

The 44 Auto Magnum comes from either 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield parent case, or any similar case head and length. I have used the same for 45 ACP also, but it requires inside case reaming as does the 44 Auto Magnum.

yooper77

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2008, 07:05:44 AM »

I guess this is not the most helpful information, but the 222 Remington spawned a bunch of kids as the 30-06 and 7mm Mauser. I am not too big into the magnums to know but the basic belted magnum case spawned a whole lot too, not sure who the parent was. Those four families I am willing to bet, accounts for 80% + of the bottle necked cartridges that are loaded today.

skb2706 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:20:50 AM »

38-55 spawned a whole bunch as well

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:29:54 AM »

Thanks guys , the more info i can get the better the data base will be .

stimpy

Catfish · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:28:26 AM »

Stimpy,
A good start my be " The Handloader`s Manual of Cartridge Conversions". It`s copy write is 1987 so every thing since then is not in it, but it has alot of round and tell you what round to use to form the cases. And you do know of corse that as soon as you get every round in your book there will be some dumby neck down or up another round the next day, or later the same day.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:16:56 PM »

Ya Catfish , thats why a 3 ring binder , to fill in those gaps .

stimpy

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:44:57 PM »

I almost (well I did) forgot the 30-30 family.

I do not know how arcane you want to get, but there are a bunch of rounds spawned by the 444 Marlin and 225 Winchester. The last two are by certain houses that specialize in their own cartridges. Not certain if you want to stick to factory cartridges or any thing goes.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2008, 01:06:44 PM »

LaOtto222

I think if i go back far enough I may find just 2 cases that started it all , kind of like the Adam & Eve of the gun world , Funny you come up with the 30/30 as it was the kid of the 38/55 .

Catfish

Was at my smiths yesterday and he showed me his newest toy , a Rem 700 in a 22-250 rebarreled and necked down to .20 so now I have to get the case specs from him to draw up that one .

stimpy

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2008, 02:24:21 PM »

Stimpy - I guess it is how you look at it. Lyman's 48th edition indeed says that the 38-55 was the parent case of the 30-30 (I looked it up after what you said).

Isn't the linage a straight line from the 38-55 to the 30-30 and then branching out? I was looking at the fact that so many cases said they are formed out of a 30-30 not 38-55. This includes 219 Zipper, 219 Donaldson Wasp, and 25-35, 30 and 35 Herrett among a bunch of others. whimper - I wasn't thinking that far back. OK, OK the 38-55 is the parent of a slew of cases.

I just saw in Hornady's 6th edition - "Nearly all of today's popular cartridges have roots that can be traced back to one of four parent cartridges. Those cartridges are the 375 H&H, the 30-06 Springfield, the 404 Jeffery, and the 8 MM Mauser."
This does not include the 222 family or the 38-55 family, of course the 38-55 family is long in the tooth and many of the cartridges, it spawned are obsolete or wildcat status, like the 30 and 35 Herrett.

Are you going to include pistol cartridges? All that have been mentioned so far are rifle stuff.

Are you going to make a tree, where the parent is the trunk with all of the kids branching off of that? Or are you just going to make a list with the Parent as a heading?

Why so many questions

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2008, 02:52:25 PM »

LaOtto222

First I want to just do a binder with the parent case as the first page and then do all the rounds that came from it in order of bore dia. but now that you have given me another idea , I may just have to do a tree also .

Anyone happen to know what the first metalic cartridge ever made was ?

Need a trunk for the tree .

stimpy

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2008, 03:04:53 PM »

Stimpy I go back aways, but I don't go back that far

Rim fire Spencer??? Weren't they used during the Civil War in the first "repeaters"?

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2008, 03:12:37 PM »

Some more info - the first center fire cartridge according to Chuck Hawks

Winchester and Henry realized that a more powerful cartridge was needed on the western frontier, and that led to the development of the centerfire .44-40 Winchester cartridge. The steel frame Model 1873 rifle was designed for the higher pressure of the .44-40, using the basic Henry action. The .44-40 is still used today and is credited with killing more deer than any cartridge except the .30-30 Winchester.

The first metallic cartridge was a 22 BB cap developed in France

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2008, 03:15:34 PM »

LaOtto222

You need to go back some more , around 1800 and the pin-fire was invented in 1828 and that is as far back as I have went so far .

stimpy

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2008, 03:20:24 PM »

Yep, forgot about the pin fire, I was just a wee lad then

Here is some interesting reading for you on some early developments, but not back to the pin fire.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/early_metallic_cartridges.htm

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2008, 04:49:21 AM »

Just an up-date , as of now I have 438 case drawings in my data base with about another 100 or so to add yet , and still finding ones that I don't have yet .

Once I get all the drawings compiled I'll put them iin to some kind of order with parent case first and the kids in order of bore dia. coming behind it , will also add a note to when it was first made and if it was made into a factory round or if its still a Wildcat .

stimpy