Author Topic: Tragic CW ordnance accident  (Read 1765 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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Tragic CW ordnance accident
« on: February 18, 2008, 01:01:01 PM »
I was very sorry to hear today that my friend Sam White of Chesterfield VA had been killed in the explosion of a Civil War shell he was disarming in his yard. He apparently died at about 1:30 PM today. Here's a link to a local news article.

http://www.nbc12.com/home/15737917.html

Offline lance

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 02:54:53 PM »
cannonmn, sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 03:04:14 PM »
Cannonmn, I'm sorry to hear about the loss your friend,
I did not know him, I am assuming he was knowledgeable in ordnance and it's disarmament, one mistake can be very costly !
Anyone metal detecting & searching for Civil War artifacts should take heed that this in one area where one can never have enough knowledge.
 this is a task amateurs should walk away from.

My prayers go out to his family for their pain & loss, may Sam White rest in peace.


Allen <><

   
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 03:18:08 PM »
Not much one can say, save, we share your loss.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 04:02:44 PM »

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2008, 03:45:05 PM »
Update on the story about this accident.

The sad part of this is Government officials are looking to see what laws he may have broken!

"Along with the county investigation, ATF agents will also figure out if White broke any laws with potential explosive devices."

http://www.nbc12.com/news/state/15762097.html


Sam's store,

http://www.samwhiterelics.com/    Store has since been removed from the net.

Cannonmn do you know a family member that can close his auctions on eBay he had 4 auctions running.

Cannonmn yesterday I said I didn't know him but I was wrong, I found his card in my file, our paths crossed at the Gun show in Richmond,
a knowledgeable gentleman from what I remember.


Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 06:06:30 PM »
Quote
do you know a family member that can close his auctions on eBay he had 4 auctions running.


Thanks for the helpful thoughts.  The auctions will run out and end after 10 days max, and that will be that.  I am sure this isn't among the family's priorities now.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2008, 06:08:16 AM »
Here's a link from Richmond that in turn has links to a number of different articles and a video.  I found out that Sam was presumably attempting to disarm a 9-inch Navy shell with a watercap fuze.  I suspect that due to what has been reported about the effects of the explosion, the black powder filler had been subjected to little if any moisture over the years.  Black powder does not deterioriate unless exposed to moisture or considerable heat.  I've used 130 year-old black powder in my cannons, and it works fine as long as it hasn't been exposed to things that degrade it.

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-02-20-0152.html

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2008, 07:50:36 AM »
Here is a recent update I thought some would appreciate seeing .

Allen <><


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080502/ap_on_re_us/cannonball_death
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline EL Caz 66

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2008, 08:50:44 AM »
Civil War Cannonball Kills Relic Collector
By STEVE SZKOTAK,AP
Posted: 2008-05-02 16:42:55
Filed Under: Nation News
CHESTER, Va. (May 2) - Like many boys in the South, Sam White got hooked on the Civil War early, digging up rusting bullets and military buttons in the battle-scarred earth of his hometown.


Photo Gallery

The White Family / AP 'Finding a Treasure
Is Their Touchdown'1 of 4     Sam White, an avid collector of Civil War relics, was killed when a cannonball he was restoring exploded. The Chester, Va., man was an expert on Civil War munitions. "Sam knew his stuff, no doubt about it," said local historian Jimmy Blankenship.





As an adult, he crisscrossed the Virginia countryside in search of wartime relics -- weapons, battle flags, even artillery shells buried in the red clay. He sometimes put on diving gear to feel for treasures hidden in the black muck of river bottoms.

But in February, White's hobby cost him his life: A cannonball he was restoring exploded, killing him in his driveway.

More than 140 years after Lee surrendered to Grant, the cannonball was still powerful enough to send a chunk of shrapnel through the front porch of a house a quarter-mile from White's home in this leafy Richmond suburb.

White's death shook the close-knit fraternity of relic collectors and raised concerns about the dangers of other Civil War munitions that lay buried beneath old battlefields. Explosives experts said the fatal blast defied extraordinary odds.

"You can't drop these things on the ground and make them go off," said retired Col. John F. Biemeck, formerly of the Army Ordnance Corps.

White, 53, was one of thousands of hobbyists who comb former battlegrounds for artifacts using metal detectors, pickaxes, shovels and trowels.

"There just aren't many areas in the South in which battlefields aren't located. They're literally under your feet," said Harry Ridgeway, a former relic hunter who has amassed a vast collection. "It's just a huge thrill to pull even a mundane relic out of the ground."

After growing up in Petersburg, White went to college, served on his local police force, then worked for 25 years as a deliveryman for UPS. He retired in 1998 and devoted most of his time to relic hunting.

He was an avid reader, a Civil War raconteur and an amateur historian who watched History Channel programs over and over, to the mild annoyance of his wife.

"I used to laugh at him and say, 'Why do you watch this? You know how it turned out. It's not going to be any different,"' Brenda White said.

She didn't share her husband's devotion, but she was understanding of his interest.

"True relic hunters who have this passion, they don't live that way vicariously, like if you were a sports fanatic," she said. "Finding a treasure is their touchdown, even if it's two, three bullets."

Union and Confederate troops lobbed an estimated 1.5 million artillery shells and cannonballs at each other from 1861 to 1865. As many as one in five were duds.

Some of the weapons remain buried in the ground or river bottoms. In late March, a 44-pound, 8-inch mortar shell was uncovered at Petersburg National Battlefield, the site of an epic 292-day battle. The shell was taken to the city landfill and detonated.

Black powder provided the destructive force for cannonballs and artillery shells. The combination of sulfur, potassium nitrate and finely ground charcoal requires a high temperature -- 572 degrees Fahrenheit -- and friction to ignite.

White estimated he had worked on about 1,600 shells for collectors and museums. On the day he died, he had 18 cannonballs lined up in his driveway to restore.

White's efforts seldom raised safety concerns. His wife and son Travis sometimes stood in the driveway as he worked.

"Sam knew his stuff, no doubt about it," said Jimmy Blankenship, historian-curator at the Petersburg battleground. "He did know Civil War ordnance."

An investigation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms will not be complete until the end of May, but police who responded to the blast and examined shrapnel concluded that it came from a Civil War explosive.

Experts suspect White was killed while trying to disarm a 9-inch, 75-pound naval cannonball, a particularly potent explosive with a more complex fuse and many times the destructive power of those used by infantry artillery.

Biemeck and Peter George, co-author of a book on Civil War ordnance, believe White was using either a drill or a grinder attached to a drill to remove grit from the cannonball, causing a shower of sparks.

Because of the fuse design, it may have appeared as though the weapon's powder had already been removed, leading even a veteran like White to conclude mistakenly that the ball was inert.

The weapon also had to be waterproof because it was designed to skip over the water at 600 mph to strike at the waterline of an enemy ship. The protection against moisture meant the ball could have remained potent longer than an infantry shell.

Brenda White is convinced her husband was working on a flawed cannonball, and no amount of caution could have prevented his death.

"He had already disarmed the shell," she said. "From what I was told, there was absolutely nothing he had done wrong, that there was a manufacturing defect that no one would have known was there."

After White's death, about two dozen homes were evacuated for two days while explosives experts collected pieces from his collection and detonated them.

Today, there is little evidence of the Feb. 18 blast. The garage where White did most of his work is still crammed with his discoveries, many painstakingly restored and mounted. Rusted horseshoes are piled high in the crook of a small tree.

White's digging partner, Fred Lange, hasn't had the heart to return to his relic hunting.

"I truly miss him," Lange said. "Not a day that goes by that I don't think of him."


Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2008-05-02 15:09:41

Offline p51

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Re: Tragic CW ordnance accident
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 05:20:54 PM »
It took me few glimpses at this story in other places to realize it's a different guy, as someone else got killed in much the same way a while back…
Anyone metal detecting & searching for Civil War artifacts should take heed that this in one area where one can never have enough knowledge.
this is a task amateurs should walk away from.
AMEN to that! It's always sad to see something like this happen, but in my experience around explosives and artillery (both professionally and as a hobby), familiarity breeds disaster. The only CW ordnance I've ever picked up and kept was the unfired Minne ball I found at the bottom of the RR cut at Gettysburg in 2000 (while looking over my shoulder to be sure no park rangers were watching).
I'm going to go off on a tangent here, but it's one I think that needs to be addressed.
When I was going through the Ordnance Officer Basic Course at Aberdeen proving Grounds, I hung around with the EOD folks as much as I could, getting tips for deactivating all kinds of stuff and how to ID and handle unexploded ordnance as I was going to a mech unit tasked to support operations in Korea. I figured running into such things in the field from the 50s would be a likely thing if we ever deployed.
One of my soldiers once "found" a WW2 bazooka rocket in the outer edges of the impact zone on a artillery range. I took a look and immediately could tell it was an expended M7 series practice rocket that had what looked like a fired motor but couldn't be absolutely sure as the paint was totally gone and I could be CERTAIN that it wasn't an M-6 rocket with an unexploded warhead. I collect such things and it was awfully tempting to take it home, have it sandblasted and re-painted. Instead, I decided to err on the side of caution and called EOD on post and had them pick it up. They blew it up in their trailer later on. Hey, I have several good condition (and well marked) original practice rockets that had already been fired. I would have liked another, but my safety is more important than any artifact!
Later on, I used to teach a basic unexploded ordnance ID class to my soldiers whenever we'd deploy to anywhere, as even in CONUS (stateside) training areas you can walk into an area people forget had been used as an impact zone. The only time I ever picked up anything was a 105MM solid shot tank round (fired from an M-60 tank, I guessed in the 70s) at Yakima Firing Center. This was right after we'd driven into an impact zone that was NOT on any map. Thank God all the rounds in that field were dummy training projectiles. The only reason I picked that up was the light blue paint and markings were clearly legible and readable. Even then, I would suggest to people to not even try that (hey, I was a 2nd LT and stupid, what can I say?). I still have it as a doorstop today. The photo is from the wrong side, as the other side has the clear markings saying it is an inert training projectile:
NOTE: I DO NOT CONDONE ANY SUCH ACTIONS AT ALL BY ANYONE. I WAS LUCKY AS I WAS A STUPID 'BUTTER BAR' AND COULD HAVE BLOWN MYSELF TO KINGDOM COME BY SHEER ARROGANCE HAD I NOT BEEN SO LUCKY!!!
I only show the photo so people won't suspect I have a potentially dangerous round in my home today, and for no other reason.
Ordnance is NOT like a fine wine. It doesn't get better with age! Granted, with black powder, it's not as unstable as any composite explosives, such as the WW2 stuff like Pentolite or RS. Still, I heard a horror story from Aberdeen's EOD folks from a site they responded to many years ago. Some people who'd dug up a large civil war round with a Bormann fuse (it was assumed, based on the one survivor who'd seen the round and was gathering wood at the time) while camping. Apparently, one of the people was sitting on it, next to a campfire when the worst happened. They found his feet. Nothing else. The rest died instantly as well. I'm guessing it must have been some kind of naval or coastal artillery round of some kind as the Chesapeake Bay was right there where it was found.
On yet another tangent, one other thing to be aware of is if you ever find a sabot round (or think you've encountered something one has penetrated or landed nearby), keep moving. They look like a big metal dart, from 2 to 3 feet long depending on what type they are. Sure, none of them are filled with any explosives, but some are made from depleted uranium. Breathing the dust from one can cause heavy metal toxicity, which can easily mess you up bad. It can cause damage to blood, lungs, kidneys, liver and other vital organs as well as cancer and neurological problems. It's just bad stuff. A dust mask will protect you from the inhalation dangers but not longtime exposure to low level radiation. Keep away from anything you think a sabot has punched through or where one might have landed. The risk is minimal, but enough to make it not worth the while. They're also pyrophoric, meaning they'll ignite if they strike something with enough force. That's bad news all around. DO NOT pick one up or take it home. Again, it's a low risk, but the thing could easily be radioactive if it's a DU penetrator!
I have yet to meet anyone I would trust to "deactivate" any kind of ordnance. There's a reason EOD blows up stuff in place most of the time. Show me anyone who confidently says he can disarm any ordnance, and I'll show you someone who'd better have his life insurance paid up!
"When all else fails, call for indirect fire on your position, AND GET THE HELL OUT!"
-Exact words of one of my 'call for fire' class instructors.
Former US Army Ordnance officer and lover of all things what go BOOM!