Mueller APV

[WayneJessie]

Recently purchased a new APV after hearing good reviews on their products. Anyone who is stepping up from a low-end scope such as Tasco will probably be pleased with them but if you are accustomed to using top-quality optics such as Nikon, L'pold, Bushnell you will be able to tell quickly why the Mueller is priced lower. I was disappointed when I pulled my new APV out of the box and it had glue smeared all over the side where the "sticker" that has Mueller's name on it is glued on. The glue is hard and dry and isn't coming off. Also after looking through it it is obvious the brightness and clarity is not up to par. With the unit on 14 power it's very difficult to even get a picture of what you are looking at. I figured for a little over $100 it would be worth a try but my advice to anyone looking at an APV is to continue to save your money and get a Buckmaster, or 3200 Bushnell. They can be had for around 170-200 and have much better glass.
 Perhaps their quality control is poor and they have made better scopes. I don't intend to find out.

[Graybeard]

If you have one with that many problems you need to get with Rich and get it repaired or replaced under warranty. I can assure that is NOT the norm for that scope.

I have one on my Remington R700 SPS Varmint in .223 Remington. It's a nice clear scope plenty bright and has no short comings I've found yet. Mine exhibits none of the problems you say yours has and all should be covered under warranty.

I am used to Leupold, Bushnell Elites and the like. I probably have more Leupold scopes than any other but Bushnell (mostly Elites) are darn close and perhaps even ahead. I've really not counted lately.

Either you have an anomaly that Rich will make right or you're just here to bitch and moan because you know they are sponsors of the site. Step up and show us which it is. Since this isn't the classifieds I've removed your attempt to turn it into one.

Perhaps the only thing needed is someone to actually show you how to use your scope. That funny little over size piece on the Objective end is called a parallax adjustment use it and your image will clear up. The other end has a focus adjustment that clears up the cross hairs. Between them they can make your image nice and clear and sharp and bright.

[WayneJessie]

Well, first I made no derrogatory remarks about the APV other than to describe what I have out of the box. I haven't any problem adjusting other scopes to make them clear and sharp. They also don't have glue slathered all over the side of them to hold a sticker on.
If only glowing "reviews" of a sponser's product are desired just say so. I understand you need to get the bills paid. You assure me that the problems I have encounted with my scope are not the norm. Amazing that you quality inspect everything that goes out their factory. I have much more to do than to complain about a scope that has no problems. I have no clue who Rich is but have sent correspondence to Mueller's web address. I never said all of their products were poor quality however it's obvious that QC is lacking to let something like this out the door.

[Mueller Optics]

Here we go again!

Mueller will not warranty any scope that they determine has been damaged by recoil. I got that strait from one of their "tech reps". If you mount one on a Howitzer and never have a problem good for you. If you mount one on a .22 and their opinion is that it was damaged by recoil you are S.O.L. Personally, i'm more than willing to pay more for a scope that was not made in China by a 4ft. tall communist. There are other lower-priced scopes of better quality that aren't made by Red China.

Back in April you made the above comment in another post that was totally false. At the same time you said you wont buy a Mueller scope and now only a month later you are claiming you bought one? and then bash the clarity, which is what the APV is most well known for?

I believe all Mueller dealers have a return policy so if you do actually have an APV and don't like it, please feel free to return it and walk away, far away.

MO

[Graybeard]

I failed to relate him as the same one that had the other complaint but sure knew that this thread looked like a "bash Mueller" post more than a valid compliant. Some folks just pick out a brand and for some reason have to bash them no matter what. It's doubtful that he's ever even owned a Mueller scope. The internet is full of such folks sadly.

But no WayneJessie I don't inspect all production from Mueller but I've seen a LOT of folks comment on their Mueller scopes and NEVER have I heard complaints like from you. Pretty much all posts I've seen on them have been positive and for sure the scopes from Mueller I've gotten and those of folks I know personally who've gotten scopes from them have been happy with them.

There is no rule that says you can't report problems with the products of our sponsors in fact I'm sure they all would like to hear of any REAL problems with their items so they can make them right. But to come here and make up stuff just to bash a manufacturer ANY MANUFACTURER sponsor or not is just not what we're about here. If someone has a valid problem with any product we'd like to hear about it but we don't care for folks who just pick out someone to bash and that seems all they want to do for no good or valid reason.

[WayneJessie]

Here we go again!

Mueller will not warranty any scope that they determine has been damaged by recoil. I got that strait from one of their "tech reps". If you mount one on a Howitzer and never have a problem good for you. If you mount one on a .22 and their opinion is that it was damaged by recoil you are S.O.L. Personally, i'm more than willing to pay more for a scope that was not made in China by a 4ft. tall communist. There are other lower-priced scopes of better quality that aren't made by Red China.

Back in April you made the above comment in another post that was totally false. At the same time you said you wont buy a Mueller scope and now only a month later you are claiming you bought one? and then bash the clarity, which is what the APV is most well known for?

I believe all Mueller dealers have a return policy so if you do actually have an APV and don't like it, please feel free to return it and walk away, far away.

MO

The comment I made in April was the response I got from a representative of Mueller by e-mail. It was also clearly posted on Mueller's website then and has since been changed to state that they are not rated for heavy recoiling guns(whatever that means). I did however buy one since Mueller's  warranty statement about recoil was changed. If you are authorized to handle warranty problems I will be happy to send you the scope with my proof of purchase. If not, I will wait to see what response I get from Mueller's e-mail address. It won't take a rocket scientist to see the glue all over the side of the scope where the Mueller sticker was put on. However, I know that complaining about the lack of brightness and clarity will be a waste of time. Perhaps all Mueller scopes have the level of quality mine does and if that is Mueller's response so be it. If the clarity of mine is normal for a Mueller scope I most certainly will walk away, far away. Anyway, for those that feel there's nothing wrong with my scope and I am simply looking for something to complain about; I will list it in the classified  section. It's never been fired on a gun. Simply mounted & bore-sighted. I'll supply the receipt & original box as well as the sunshade that was included with it.
I gave a review of a product that I paid money for. I assumed(wrongly) that members would like to hear good as well as bad experiences with a product so they could make an informed decision. Instead of trying to get your hands on the scope to see if the claims were true or not you want to attempt to discredit me by a post that I made earlier. You could have shown some professionalism: got the scope back; and seen for yourself if the reported problems had any merit and then sharing with everyone here the findings. If i'm not banned for posting my feelings about this scope I will be more than happy to report if/how Mueller handles this issue. Certainly, getting into a brawl over a $100 scope won't help anyone nor will it correct a poor quality scope.

[30-30man]

I'll take up for these two seeing that no one else has at the moment. ...I own two Mueller scopes. The APV and the Multi-shot and they are better than some of my more expensive scopes. My APV has taken 100's of rounds form my Russian Mosin and it kicks like a mule.  You have no reason to complain until you give Mueller a chance to honor the warranty.  If they fail you which I doubt they will, then you can complain away.  That is what this forum is for, sharing information about the sport we love..I've complained about many items that I bought but I always gave the manufacturer a chance to fix the problem.  When you do that, let us know...In their defense, it does sound like B/S as you only have 14 posts....

[DalesCarpentry]

I do have to say that they must be glue happy at the factory. I had a Mueller 8.5x25x44 that I bought new. When I received it, it had glue stuck inside where the sun shade would screw in. I never did anything about it and sold it to another member that way. Seeing as I never planed on screwing a sun shade into it, it really made difference to me. Now if it had gotten on the lens then I would have sent it back. Dale

[Mueller Optics]

The comment I made in April was the response I got from a representative of Mueller by e-mail. It was also clearly posted on Mueller's website then and has since been changed to state that they are not rated for heavy recoiling guns(whatever that means). I did however buy one since Mueller's  warranty statement about recoil was changed. If you are authorized to handle warranty problems I will be happy to send you the scope with my proof of purchase. If not, I will wait to see what response I get from Mueller's e-mail address. It won't take a rocket scientist to see the glue all over the side of the scope where the Mueller sticker was put on. However, I know that complaining about the lack of brightness and clarity will be a waste of time. Perhaps all Mueller scopes have the level of quality mine does and if that is Mueller's response so be it. If the clarity of mine is normal for a Mueller scope I most certainly will walk away, far away. Anyway, for those that feel there's nothing wrong with my scope and I am simply looking for something to complain about; I will list it in the classified  section. It's never been fired on a gun. Simply mounted & bore-sighted. I'll supply the receipt & original box as well as the sunshade that was included with it.
I gave a review of a product that I paid money for. I assumed(wrongly) that members would like to hear good as well as bad experiences with a product so they could make an informed decision. Instead of trying to get your hands on the scope to see if the claims were true or not you want to attempt to discredit me by a post that I made earlier. You could have shown some professionalism: got the scope back; and seen for yourself if the reported problems had any merit and then sharing with everyone here the findings. If i'm not banned for posting my feelings about this scope I will be more than happy to report if/how Mueller handles this issue. Certainly, getting into a brawl over a $100 scope won't help anyone nor will it correct a poor quality scope.

By all means, send it back then..  But based on all your comments thus far, I am already under the impression that your not going to be happy know matter what you get. I'm still trying to figure out why you would even mount it if it was so bad when you received it? I'm also trying to figure out why you would trash talk us and then buy one less than 30 days later when you clearly said there are better scopes out there for the money? None of this makes any sense at all and I think anyone would make that assumption based on your previous post.. We never said it wouldn't be covered by the warranty due to recoil and we made the change on the website to reflect that so know one would get that impression. Shame on us for making corrections that benefit the user.  We don't recommend that scope on certain applications, which is no different than other manufacturers that don't recommend their scopes on a springer air gun (reverse recoil) but its still covered by the warranty..  We do that because we don't want users calling, complaining and bashing us should a $100 scope fail on a canon (.375, .458, etc.), unlike other brands that could care less as long as they can sell you a scope.

By the way, we have NOT received an email from you yet as you mentioned above so I hope this wont be another attempt to say we didnt respond and then bash our customer service as well..

MO 

[Graybeard]

For the record since WayneJessie seems unsure to whom he is speaking the person posting as MuellerOptics is Rich the owner of the company. I'd say he kinda has the authority to act on behalf of the company. To my knowledge he personally reponds to all e-mail as well. Rich bends over backwards to try to maintain the reputation of his company and to please customers.

I'm not aware of any company in business today who doesn't on occasion let a product slip out the door they wish had not. It's how they deal with it when that happens that matters most.

[WayneJessie]

The comment I made in April was the response I got from a representative of Mueller by e-mail. It was also clearly posted on Mueller's website then and has since been changed to state that they are not rated for heavy recoiling guns(whatever that means). I did however buy one since Mueller's  warranty statement about recoil was changed. If you are authorized to handle warranty problems I will be happy to send you the scope with my proof of purchase. If not, I will wait to see what response I get from Mueller's e-mail address. It won't take a rocket scientist to see the glue all over the side of the scope where the Mueller sticker was put on. However, I know that complaining about the lack of brightness and clarity will be a waste of time. Perhaps all Mueller scopes have the level of quality mine does and if that is Mueller's response so be it. If the clarity of mine is normal for a Mueller scope I most certainly will walk away, far away. Anyway, for those that feel there's nothing wrong with my scope and I am simply looking for something to complain about; I will list it in the classified  section. It's never been fired on a gun. Simply mounted & bore-sighted. I'll supply the receipt & original box as well as the sunshade that was included with it.
I gave a review of a product that I paid money for. I assumed(wrongly) that members would like to hear good as well as bad experiences with a product so they could make an informed decision. Instead of trying to get your hands on the scope to see if the claims were true or not you want to attempt to discredit me by a post that I made earlier. You could have shown some professionalism: got the scope back; and seen for yourself if the reported problems had any merit and then sharing with everyone here the findings. If i'm not banned for posting my feelings about this scope I will be more than happy to report if/how Mueller handles this issue. Certainly, getting into a brawl over a $100 scope won't help anyone nor will it correct a poor quality scope.

By all means, send it back then..  But based on all your comments thus far, I am already under the impression that your not going to be happy know matter what you get. I'm still trying to figure out why you would even mount it if it was so bad when you received it? I'm also trying to figure out why you would trash talk us and then buy one less than 30 days later when you clearly said there are better scopes out there for the money? None of this makes any sense at all and I think anyone would make that assumption based on your previous post.. We never said it wouldn't be covered by the warranty due to recoil and we made the change on the website to reflect that so know one would get that impression. Shame on us for making corrections that benefit the user.  We don't recommend that scope on certain applications, which is no different than other manufacturers that don't recommend their scopes on a springer air gun (reverse recoil) but its still covered by the warranty..  We do that because we don't want users calling, complaining and bashing us should a $100 scope fail on a canon (.375, .458, etc.), unlike other brands that could care less as long as they can sell you a scope.

By the way, we have NOT received an email from you yet as you mentioned above so I hope this wont be another attempt to say we didnt respond and then bash our customer service as well..

MO 

Sir, I most certainly 

[CDA]

I don't post much and am not a scope expert. But I just wanted to add that Mueller is my favorite scope brand right now. I'm sure there are better ones, but they are out of my budget range at this time. I have a couple of Mueller higher power scopes that I am VERY pleased with and would like to get a 2-7X32 for my new-to-me .450 Marlin. I have not had an APV, but wouldn't hesitate on a lower powered rifle. I wouldn't expect it to be as clear as other scopes at much higher prices. I have not sent any of mine back to Mueller, but have talked with them on the phone and they seem to be willing to stand behind their products. I would definitely sent it back for Mueller to look at and give them a fair chance to make it right.

[WayneJessie]

This is a waste of time. If you'll send me a shipping label I will be more than happy to ship it to you AND go away. Please do two things for the sake of others. 1. Drop the hype on your website that claims they are better than scopes costing twice as much. 2. Be forthright with your customers and print on the scope and the box that it was made in the People's Republic of China.  I did send you an e-mail requesting help with the scope and no answer has come as of yet. You know, the dealer from which I purchased the scope was a strait-up guy and I admit I should have listened more closely to what he was trying to tell me when I asked about the quality of the scope in question. He said it was a decent scope for $100 and to Mueller's credit all of the ones he had to send back with problems were fixed. Obviously, another poster has seen some of the issues I am complaining about so I am not an isolated case.  I did attempt to handle this with Mueller first before posting my experience with the scope. Your first response was to try to discredit me instead of getting your hands on the scope to see if my complaints had any merit. Regardless of whether you are the owner or just hired help that's weak.
Again, what difference does it make if I mounted the scope on one of my guns? It's the quality of the scope that's the subject here.
Also, what difference does it make how many posts a person has made in relation to the quality of the scope? Isn't the scope the subject?
If you will give me your personal e-mail I will be happy to give you my address so you can send me a shipping label. If you look at the scope and tell me that all Mueller products have that level of quality I would like a refund. I promise you can sell to the next guy and I will go away. Call me what you will. I took your own advertisement claims of them being better than scopes of twice the price literally. I put it side-by-side with all of my other scopes and judged it according to fit &finish, eye relief and especially clarity and it wasn't even close. My lowest-priced scope (Nikon Pro-Staff)$129 was far better in eye relief and clarity. I don't need to read "reviews" by others that may have a conflict of interest to see quality as compared to hype.

[30-30man]

The number of post a person makes, when only a few, are relevant.  If you only have 14 or so post and most of them are a bash on a product, then it's a pattern. If you really wanted the thing fixed then you wouldn't have typed so much bashing for everyone to read. Most scope manufacturers don't pay shipping for warranty repairs, heck some even charge a handling fee just to look at them.  Give Mueller a chance to fix the problem or go find another board to bash on.

[WayneJessie]

The number of post a person makes, when only a few, are relevant.  If you only have 14 or so post and most of them are a bash on a product, then it's a pattern. If you really wanted the thing fixed then you wouldn't have typed so much bashing for everyone to read. Most scope manufacturers don't pay shipping for warranty repairs, heck some even charge a handling fee just to look at them.  Give Mueller a chance to fix the problem or go find another board to bash on.

Let 

[WayneJessie]

30-30man if you took the time to READ the majority of my posts you would have seen that they dealt with my great results from a Howa 1500 rifle I purchased. Go away unless you can fix my scope under warranty. "BASHING"- maybe you could make that a hate crime...
I'll SAY IT SLOW SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT. I did try to get Mueller to respond to a private e-mail. No response has come as of yet.
Bashing as you call it probably means discrediting a product falsely. This is not the case.
Perhaps Mueller will not send a shipping label to me to correct a warranty concern. Nikon will and has in the past so don't say no company will. Please, go read all of my posts. You'll find no such pattern of "Bashing".

[DalesCarpentry]

I have read every post you have made on this site. You seem to be a pretty good guy from the posts that I read. You just received a scope that was not up to your exceptions. I can understand that and might be a little upset if it were to happen to me. The point I am trying to make here is this. Either return the scope or keep it. What you are doing here is fueling a fire that does not need to be started. From what I have also read in your posts you bought a Howa and are looking forward to shooting it. Just like the rest of us here. We all buy new rifles and enjoy shooting them. The people here on this site are some of the best people you will ever meet. You should just let this go and make some new friends here before it is to late. Dale

[WayneJessie]

Thank you for actually reading my posts. I didn't post my experiences with my Mueller scope to make enemies or friends. I did it so guys who may be considering buying one can make an informed decision. I got the scope based on their own claims of it being  a top-quality scope for less money. Do a little searching on various other sites and you will see my complaints are not only common but some are experiencing much worse problems. Mueller is simply a name. The scopes are made in Chinese factories(except one) thus the lack of quality control. Allmost weekly the news carries another story of some Chinese product that has failed minimum quality standards. I have no desire to carry this any further. If the company stands behind their stuff I will be glad to send it back if I could get an answer to my e-mail. If not, I have listed it on the classified section here and other sites.
For those that think I am making much of nothing consider for a moment how much $115 means to you. I believe in commending companies like Howa that produce superb quality products for a good price but I also believe in calling low-quality Chinese stuff exactly what it is. I'm done. Perhaps i'll just stay around the Howa & Ruger gun sections from now on. Semper Fi

[Mueller Optics]

As mentioned in my post above, I still have not received an email from you. Stop playing games and just send it back to the address listed on our site or in the paperwork that came with the scope.

By the way, make sure you do a delivery confirmation for both our sakes.

MO

[Slowhanddd]

Well now he's trying to sell it on Rimfire central????Don't think he'll sell it though.ASked him if it was the same"broke"scope as he has here.Slow

[pdog06]

Well now he's trying to sell it on Rimfire central????Don't think he'll sell it though.ASked him if it was the same"broke"scope as he has here.Slow

I too saw it listed on Rimfire Central, and considered buying it until I read about it being a defective scope. No reason to unload it on someone else when you can send it back for a refund if you're not happy with it.

This is my first post here, too bad it is in a thread like this. I'll pick a better , happier one next time.

mike

[LaOtto222]

I own a Mueller APV. I liked it so well, I just ordered 2 more. One to go on a 22 WMR and one to go on a yet undetermined 22 rim fire. The one I now have is on a 22 Hornet. I think they are a very good scope for the money. They are a little more power than I like, but you do not have to turn them all the way up to use them I can not think of a better endorsement. Of course you can always get a lemon, but Mueller stands behind their products, so no worries here.

[charles p]

I don't know you, but you remind me of someone who comes home from work and hits the sauce a little hard.

I was in the service industry for about 40 years.  There are times when people will just not listen.  Wake up.  The owner said for you to return the scope!  He has put his name and reputation on the line to resolve your problem.  Listen and do as he requests you to do.

[krod47nw]

I have never owned a Mueller scope.  I spotted the scope in question on the classifieds.  I am very glad other members made the link to this post.  I don't understand why someone would want to resell a defective scope that the company will take back. 

The fact that the owner of the company is personally responding to this issue impresses me enough to buy one.  Seems like excellent customer service to me.    My next scope will probably be a Mueller. 

Kevin

[Sitting Duck]

Personally, I would never buy a scope off of the internet.  Sight unseen.  I assume that is what happened here or WJ would have seen the glue issue when he picked it up at the store.

I'm in the market for a new scope (tired eyes) and quite honestly if a company can't put a sticker(?) on their product without smearing glue all over what else is lacking in quality and quality control?  Glue was mentioned by DalesCarpentry, also.  I relate this issue to a restaurant that has filthy restrooms.  The food might or might not taste great but I can't get past the HOUSEKEEPING. 


I'm on the fence with Mueller.  WJ says that he sent email(s).  The company says they didn't receive it (them?).  The owner says send it back and we'll make it right with you.  Yada, yada, yada...  I think the owner should have offered to send a replacement along with a return label for the "glued" one.  That would have went along way towards my perception of Mueller Optics.  Anyone can say "send it back".  That isn't going the extra mile in my book.

I like the fact that Mueller sponsors this forum and thank them for doing so.  However, if Mueller wishes to grow the company utilizing this site and/or others it appears that additional effort needs to be allocated to the "housekeeping" department. 

Beauty might only be skin deep but I still wouldn't marry a leaper.



   

[30-30man]

The thing to remember is Mueller has already offered more than other companies offer with a scope in this price range.  Heck Bushnell will charge you $15 just to look at a scope.  Then if they decide it is not warranted, you're SOL for the $15.  The whole thread just needs to be deleted.  He never wanted his scope fixed or he would have responded in a different way..Instead he just wanted to bash a product without giving them a chance to fix it....I don't know of any company that has 100% perfect products out there....If they do, they're made by Jesus, I hear He once was a carpenter.

[Sitting Duck]

I disagree with deleting the thread.  I think people need to be informed when dealing with an unknown manufacturer or distributor.  The good reviews along with the bad.  The glue issue (unless I missed it) was never addressed by Mueller.  This is basic cosmetic stuff, in my opinion.

I don't wish Mueller Optics any ill will and I might still consider their scopes.  But not sight unseen.


Why the scope wasn't sent back is beyond me.  That makes no sense at all, to me.

[Graybeard]

I don't think Rich or anyone else here really is even convinced the guy has a Mueller scope good, bad or indifferent. To ship one to him expecting him to return the other would be sheer lunacy on Rich's part.

If the guy even owns a Mueller scope which I personally have doubts about then he should do as all manufacturers would ask of him with a defective product. Return it and let them make it right. Rich has said he will do that and I'm sure he will.

I can't speak to whether there is or is not excessive glue holding the Mueller medallion on but of all the Mueller scopes I've seen so far none have experienced that problem. Sure one might get out with such a problem it's possible but I've not seen it on any so far. Any defect is I guess at least theoriticaly possible. But you need to realize this guy has a history of knocking Mueller products and has yet to prove he even owns or has owned one. Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. Dunno.

But he came here for one reason only and that was to knock the product of a GBO Sponsor. He has no intention of returning it for a repair or replacement if he even owns the scope. It could be he doesn't and is just hoping someone will pay for a scope he doesn't have and then be screwed on the deal. Maybe he is 100% on the up and up also but I seriously doubt it.

My APV works fine and looks great and does exactly what I'd expect of it. Other than WJ all the other folks I've heard of with one feels the same.

[LaOtto222]

I have received the two APV's I ordered. I looked them over and have found no obvious defects. One was the silver APV to go on a Stainless Steel Marlin 22 WRM. It is a handsome scope indeed. The optics are clear for a $125 scope ($115 for black). There is a company out of Minnesota that liked the APV so well, they had a custom line made up based on the APV. As you read this thread, if you get the impression I like Mueller scopes you are correct. I now own 4 of them. 3 APVs and 1 tactical 8.5X - 25X. They all are very good scopes for the money I spent on them. I believe Dale shot a very small group at 300 yards with his 243 with a Mueller Tactical setting on top. Good Luck and Good Shooting.

[Sitting Duck]

Well.... The ball is in WJ's court and he's not bouncing it.  Although, after having re-read his last post, he seemed sincere. 

I guess everyone has different ideas as to what entertainment is.

I wouldn't want to see the thread deleted but perhaps it should be allowed to fade away to page(?).  Much as its originator.

I wish Mueller Optics only the best in their quest for name recognition and market share.