Help me find a .22 Auto pistol to meet this spec:

[Camba]

I do like the looks of the S&W 41.  I've shot on (5" bbl) way back in time and it was very accurate and well made.  At that time (1970 something) my interest was more as a rifleman and I was not, for some reason, interested in pistols.  So which part of the spec does this pistol meet or does not meet?

Camba

[Tom C.]

Looking at your list of requirements and specifications, the S&W Model 41 and Ruger MK II and MK III both fit. Most of your variations in specifications are a matter of personal preference.

I am looking for a .22LR semi-auto pistol to be used for the following activities:
1.  Hunting
2.  Plinking
3.  Informal target shooting
4.  Informal personal defense
5.  To take it everywhere (hunting, fishing, business travel, camping, survival trips, etc.)

Pistol specifications that need to be met:

1.  Barrel length: Best fit for the above activities.  Barrel length is a matter of personal preference. I really like the light 5” barrel on my 41, but I also like the 5 ½” barrel on the MK III Bull Barrel and the fluted 6 7/8” barrel on the MK III Hunter. You have to pick the barrel length that best suits you.
2.  Action:  Semi-automatic.  Yes
3.  Caliber:  .22LR.  Yes
4.  Sights:  Good open sights as well as drilled and tapped for optical/red dot scopes. Yes. My 41 has terrific iron sights. The Rugers have good sights, but I prefer the Vulquartsen rear sight for the Ruger and a plain black, serrated blade on my Hunter. Another case of personal preference.
5.  Finish:  Blue or stainless.  I prefer stainless. You may not.
6.  Grips:  Wood, plastic, exchange ables.  Good feel type.  The grips on the 41 are excellent. I have replaced the grips on the MK IIIs with slightly thicker checkered wood grips. More personal preference.
7.  Firing pin:  To be capable of NOT making marring marks if accidentally trigger is pulled in an empty chamber.  Yes.
8.  Accuracy:  To be able to print easily 1 to 2" groups at 25 yards open sights and the same at 50 yards w/scope.  I believe so, but the Rugers do require some breaking in to achieve optimum accuracy. I break mine in by shooting a few hundred rounds of high speed, copper washed ammo to help smooth the barrel.
9.  Quality: To use it for a long time and hopefully a couple more generations down the line.  The 41 is to my mind a more delicate gun. The Rugers are anvils. Both are well made.
10. Price: Under $1000. Rugers certainly are. 41 can be found used for that price range, but probably not new.

Do we have anything like that available off the shelf?  Probably not. You can expect to have to modify what ever you get to dial it in for your personal preferences. I shortened the  barrel of my 41 to get it the way I want it. On the MK III Hunter I changed the grips, put in a VQ MK II hammer and sear, a Marvel trigger, a VQ rear sight and a standard Ruger front sight. I suspect you can get pretty close to what you want, but then must make a list of anticipated mods and see which gun, of all those you consider, is closest or easiest to make into your ideal.

If not what will need to be done to get there? Dial it in for your personal preferences.

[Camba]

TomC:

Thank you for your response.  Seems that you know both pistols the S&W41 and the Ruger MKII/III really well.  From your response, you speak well of the S&W41 and diplomatically give an edge to the Ruger MKII/III as far as the longevity of usage in addition to make modifications to tune it up to be a great shooter.  I think I am a step closer to purchase the Ruger MKII, stainless steel with a 5.5" slab sided or bull barrel.  However, if I find a good used S&W41 with a similar barrel length, I may have to think really hard on which one to go with.  I was hoping the Browning Buckmark would have a better fit to the spec but apparently not.  Thank you for taking the time to analyze the spec.

Camba


Any other pistols... going once! ... Going twice! ....

[Tom C.]

I know the Rugers and the S&W 41. I don't know the Buckmark or some of the others.

I do feel that if you are as particular as I am about guns, you may not be able to get what you want from the factory. You may then need to choose what is closest to your final configuration and can be modified by you or a 'smith to get to the configuration you want.

I cut a 7" 41 barrel to get the 5" 41 I wanted. Weighs 35 oz. and is perfect for me. I also put on the large trigger guard, which I don't see much of these days, which gives my fat fingers more room.

The Rugers MK IIIs are good basic guns, but usually have triggers that leave a lot to be desired. VQ parts eliminate the mag safety and provide a pretty good trigger. I have also drilled and threaded the mag release and screwed on a 1911 mag release extension. Works for me. I also like the VQ rear sight. Very similar to a Bomar.

I did the same barrel cut on a S&W 617. My 6 shot 617 now has a 5" barrel. Weighs 46.8 oz. with Pachmayr Presentation grips and balances much better (for me) with 3 oz. removed from the muzzle. My 627PC also has a 5" barrel and weighs 46.0 oz. with the same grips. I consider the 617 a nice, inexpensive to shoot, understudy for the 627. They both have terrific double action triggers and are very accurate.

[Camba]

I made my final decision:

Today, at a gun show, I found the pistol I was looking for.  A Ruger MKIII GC model, stainless steel, 5.5" bbl slab sided with thumb rest and came with a Weaver mount for scope mount.  The scope mount base does not interfere with the open sights.  This is a nice feature.  After all the answers and coments from you guys, I decided that the Ruger really has more of the spec items built in.  I spent $400 for this gun and I will add a few more extra items to make it more enjoyable (such as a better trigger).  Hopefully I will be able to test it tomorrow.  Thank you guys.

Camba

[Tom C.]

The 5 1/2" slab side configuration isn't, I believe, a standard configuration, but IMO, a very desireable configuration. It should have very nice weight and balance.

With a MK III, you have a few decisions to make: retain the mag safety?; what parts to use to upgrade the trigger. I wanted to eliminate the mag safety, so I installed a VQ MK II hammer and sear, along with a Marvel trigger. I got a terrific trigger out of it.

I also installed a VQ rear sight. It provides a sight picture like a Bomar sight.

IMO, Ruger barrels tend to be a little rough. What I have had luck doing is breaking them in with Federal bulk stuff. It is copper washed, high speed stuff. Several hundred rounds will go a long way to smoothing out the little manufacturing issues left by Ruger.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Old Griz]

Had another idea . . . but, never mind.

[deltecs]

Browning Nomad or Challenger I with 4 1/2" barrel.  The Challenger model is with wood grips, while the Nomad is plastic grips.  Both use the same Browning action the United States Olympic Pistol team has used, so that should bode well for its accuracy.  I have a Nomad with the 6" barrel and it certainly will do #7 with match ammo and most of the time with quality standard LR ammo.  It is capable of it, even though my eyesight is not anymore.  Price depending on condition and availablilty is under $500 for one in excellent condition.

[Camba]

I tested the new Ruger MKIII pistol and my preliminary report is as follows:

1,  I placed a Burris 35mm red dot scope and tested the gun benched at 25 yards.  I got a couple of ragged holes with CCI minimaf and with PMC match pistol ammo. 
2.  I tried Federal Gold Medal match ammo and it did the worst.  Over two inch group and jammed the pistol as well as FTF a few rounds.  The other ammo was more reliable.  I've got at least one or two jams with the PMC match and none with the CCI minimag.
3.  I removed the red dot (the scope mount worked itself loose) and tried open sight benched and the result were almos as good as the one with the red dot (except not ragged holes).
4.  The trigger feels to be at least 4 to 5 lbs.
5.  The thumb rest of the grips (right handed) makes it difficult to swap magazines.  I had to press the button with my left hand while holding the pistol with the right hand and puttin the pinky finger under the magazine base so it does not drop to the ground.  I think I will be changing the grips some time soon.

Other than that, I believe I like this pistol!  More tests will be on the way.

Camba

[Tom C.]

My older MK II 678GC has a very smooth barrel and shoots the Federal Gold Metal Match very well. Yours may shoot it better after the barrel is broken in.

Loctite on the scope mount screws to prevent them from coming loose. Red dot sights on one of these guns helps them shoot like a rifle.

The stuff you were planning for the trigger should take care of it.

Mag release: I drilled and tapped mine and attached a 1911 mag release extension. Works well for me. I also replaced the wood grips with the thumb rest for checkered, slightly thicker wood grips I got from Brownell's. They are MK II grips and I had to modify them slightly for the MK III.