444 P

[dpe.ahoy]

Just picked up a Marlin 444 P, and as I have never shot a rifle with ports before, wondering if I can work up loads with cast bullets?  And would the same thing apply to a revolver?   And if cast is ok, what about gas checked cast?  I guess I'm not to old to learn lets hope anyway.   DP.

[GatCat]

Yes, you can shoot lead bullets in your Marlin .444P. As far a lead bullets in a revolver, I would say "it depends". S&W, for example, has two different muzzle breaks for their .500, one for lead bullets, one for jacketed. I would think if it is a conventional type of porting ( magna-port, etc ) you should be able to use either.
Mark

[BBF]

 Is this a factory ported barrel with the deep cut rifling? If this is a micro groove barrel you need to hold down the V's to 1600 fps max with cast bullets.

Gas checks will help all else being equal.

[Mikey]

dpe.ahoy:  your 444p will handle all sorts of cast loads with incredible accuracy, if you do your part. 

Cast or cast and gas checked doesn't matter although you can drive the gas checked bullets to jacketed bullet velocities.  Get yourself on over to the Beartooth Bullets website (add a www and a .com) and read what Marshall Stanton has written about cast bullets in the 444.  I think he used a 444p like yours as one of his test rifles.   

Loading data from the older manuals before the Beartooth data became available are more in line with 45-70 Govt's recommendations and are loads you can have fun plinking with as well as hunt with.


And the same applies with a revolver.  However, if you are talkin' about a 44 special or 44 magnum revolver you need to be aware that 44/444 cast bullets of one diameter may not shoot worth a darn in another gun.  All my 444s take either .431 or .432 cast and gas checked slugs.  My 44 magnum prefers .430 diameter cast.  You will be more familiar with this once you read the Beartooth information.  It is very helpful.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got one and its been shot thousands of times with cast. As a matter of fact i dont recall ever even trying a jacketed bullet in it. It is one of my most accurate lever guns and one of my favorite calibers. I wish marlin would make me a 18 inch oct barrel straingt gripped gun like the limited IV 4570 but in 444. The 444 for all practical purposes will take any gave a 4570 will and do it with much less recoil.

[Redhawk1]

ive got one and its been shot thousands of times with cast. As a matter of fact i dont recall ever even trying a jacketed bullet in it. It is one of my most accurate lever guns and one of my favorite calibers. I wish marlin would make me a 18 inch oct barrel straingt gripped gun like the limited IV 4570 but in 444. The 444 for all practical purposes will take any gave a 4570 will and do it with much less recoil.

Lloyd
That is because the 444 uses lighter bullets.

[WyoStillhunter]

As suggested above, go here to get your original question answered in great detail --

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28


If you really want to see what that 444P will do with cast bullets, this will get you going.

BTW, be sure to wear adequate hearing protections...always...but especially with the ports.

[Lloyd Smale]

redhawk your absoultely correct. Dont take my post as to meaning i believe the 444 is as powerful as a 4570 its not and never will be. What it is is a gun that is capable of taking any game the 4570 willl be used for and will do it with less recoil (because of lighter bullets) and it will also allow those lighter bullets to penetrate as well as the heavier 4570s because then have better sectional densiity which makes up for the lack of weight. If you want to read a good article about the outfitter wrote by a friend of mine that is one of the most knowlegable shooters in the country go here   http://www.leverguns.com/articles/anderson/444Outfitter.htm  He owns and shoots probably more guns then the rest of us put together and like me he has a soft spot for the outfitter and the 444. Why because they work. The 444 to me is like a big 35 rem. It kills out of porportion to what it should. I think the only reason it is not one of the most popular lever guns out there is that it has NEVER been loaded properly by any factory. It needs cast bullets and it doesnt even come into its own until they get to at least 300 grain and more is even better. Those long 44 bullets penetrate like theres no tommarow and slap animals with athourity 

[dpe.ahoy]

Thanks guys.  I've had a 45-70 marlin and have a handi 45-70 and now have 2 444's as well as 44 mag, 45 colt and 454 casull, so know how well they do with cast.  Just wasn't sure about the ports.  Too many toys and not enough time to play, didn't want to have to clean the ports out if they would lead up.  If that is a problem, what's the best way to clear them out?  Gonna have to look for some lighter load as well, got some kids that like to go out with me to play.  Plus, it's starting to sink into this thick head that I don't have to shoot full house loads to have fun.    When we go we try to make at least an afternoon of it, more fun if ya don't hurt the next day.   DP.

[Lloyd Smale]

cant help you there dp as ive never had them lead up on my guide guns or outfitter.

[BBF]

 I don't have any reason to think otherwise but I would presume even the lower pressures generated with cast loads would be more then sufficient to keep the ports open of any lead.

[dpe.ahoy]

Just got back from shooting.  Only had 15 rounds loaded up for the 444P, so didn't get to play with as much as I wanted.  They were some 265g Hornady over a load of 3031.  Didn't have any paper with us, but made some gravel out of bigger rocks.    Gotta say I really like that gun!  Has a williams peep on the rear and globe front sight.  Pulled the screw in apeture out to use it as a ghost ring setup, now can't wait for hunting season!  More fun than the Handi 444 I have, but in all fairness it does have a decelerator pad on the butt.    Couldn't get either of the 2 oldest boys to try it.  That's OK, they can use the 35 rem or 30-30 or one of the other guns I have.  This one is MINE!   DP.

[BBF]

I recall using IMR 4198 with the 265 gr Hdy. I don't have my Hornady manual anymore but recall that there was little or no space between the powder and the bullet,

[Mikey]

The IMR4198 load I used with the 265 gn slug was 45.3 gns for 2200'/sec.  The same velocity was attained with 52.8 gns of IMR 3031 powder.  Mikey.

[BBF]

The barrel lenghts of the Marlin I had was 22"  I considered that much longer then needed for a bush gun and had the barrel cut back to 19 1/2 inch. I wanted that extra 1" above minimum legal lenghts just in case I banged op the muzzle and it needed to be re done.