looking for heavy 30/30 cast bullet

[30hrrtt]

What are some of the heavier 30 cal bullets that will function in a 30/30?  Looking for shorter range woods gun but shots aren't always ideal.  Air cooled would probably work.  Looking for penetration with some expansion as some of the deer I have taken have been angling away from me.

When it was shotgun only where I hunt, I put a 12 guage slug right down the anal canal.  Slug fragmented and did incredible damage but the fitals weren't hit for a quick kill.  It dropped and couldn't move much but it wasn't pretty.

Will a heavy enough bullet from a 30/30 reach the vitals from any angle?  I also have a Browning bolt in 30-06 but it's not as handy as the little lever walking the side of the bluffs where I hunt.

[Chris Potts]

I would consider asking this in Veral Smiths LBT forum just below this one.  I have one of his mold and they are great.  I would think that he would be able to make you a very good mold for your application.

Chris

[Larry Gibson]

Chris

First of all a "Texas heart shot" is always an "iffy" proposition with a 30-30.  Lyman's 311041 or the RCBS 30-180-FN are going to be about as good as it gets with the 30-30.  Either one when cast of WWs + 2-3% tin and AC'd and driven at 2050-2100 fps out of the lever action carbine will penetrate quite well, expand and kill efficiently. However you must still put the bullet in the right place. The "Texas heart shot" route is not usually the best way to get there with any cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

 The 311291 and 311041 are great cast bullets. I had some trouble with the 180 FN RCBS bullet in a short 10" contender barrel but it works much better in my 30-06. Even the 1 ounce shotgun slug had penetration issues on the shot you described, So don't think a half ounce or less will work any better! Especially as the range gets longer. Feeding in the lever gun will also come into play. As the weight goes up ,the length gets longer. None of this is meant as a flame, just as a reminder.

[Sweetwater]

In the Lyman Manual for Cast Bullets is a great writeup on whitetail and black bear hunting back East, I believe Virginia, but might be West Virginia. Nevertheless, the upshoot of the writeup was HEAVY bullets. It related to two different Lyman molds (these were written a long time ago) cast of WW or Lyman #2, nothing any harder, at around 190grains. All of this in a 30-30. A very good read. I've loaned mine out so I can't look up the specifics. A great book for any caster or any handloader with cast bullets. Tons of info.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Chris Potts]

Sorry for the confusion.  I didn't mean that the 30/30 was the best cartridge for deep penetration or that shot placement did not matter.  All I meant was that veral makes some really good molds.  I have been very happy with mine.  He is also very knowledgeable and would probably be able to give some good advice on the topic.  Sorry for the confusion.

Chris

[Kragman71]

After many years hunting with the 30/40 Krag,I switched to the lighter,handier Winnie 30/30 carbine,six years ago.My favorite bullet is the Lyman 311041GC. With most alloys,it weighs a little more then 170 grains.It performs very well,except for the one"Texas"shot at a doe that I never recovered.
I had two custom molds made with the same nose configuration for bullets to be paper patched.These bullets are even better;they have the same velocity as the jacketed ones.
I recommend that you try that bullet.
Frank

[woodchukhntr]

RCBS 180 gr. FN

[Cat Whisperer]

I really like the Saeco 308 - 200 gr bore rider no gas check.

[bilmac]

I have shot lots of 31141s over the years. I shoot them at full velocity in the 30-30 so I make them pretty hard. Trouble is they don't expand. I have taken some critters where the bullet broke up into buckshot like pieces. I shot a couple of antelope does three years ago with this bullet. One dropped like a rock, but the other showed no sign of being hit. She ran off in a small herd going like crazy.they must have run about half a mile, and kind of circled us. I put the binoculars on them, not for any good reason, I thought I'd missed. But lo and behold here was one of the crowd zooming along with a red side. At about that time she dropped dead. If I hadn't picked up the binos and looked I would have just assumed I had missed. She was shot broadside through the chest but it was just a pencil hole. I think I am going to swear off hunting with cast bullets. If you make them hard enough to shoot a reasonable velocity they don't expand reliably. The answer would be paper patched, but I'm getting too old to explore a whole nother world.

[Chris Potts]

I have shot lots of 31141s over the years. I shoot them at full velocity in the 30-30 so I make them pretty hard. Trouble is they don't expand. I have taken some critters where the bullet broke up into buckshot like pieces. I shot a couple of antelope does three years ago with this bullet. One dropped like a rock, but the other showed no sign of being hit. She ran off in a small herd going like crazy.they must have run about half a mile, and kind of circled us. I put the binoculars on them, not for any good reason, I thought I'd missed. But lo and behold here was one of the crowd zooming along with a red side. At about that time she dropped dead. If I hadn't picked up the binos and looked I would have just assumed I had missed. She was shot broadside through the chest but it was just a pencil hole. I think I am going to swear off hunting with cast bullets. If you make them hard enough to shoot a reasonable velocity they don't expand reliably. The answer would be paper patched, but I'm getting too old to explore a whole nother world.

You could try casting them with a soft nose.  I haven't done it myself but have heard some have very good results.  You run one pot with pure lead and another with your hard lead.  Use a spend case as a dipper for the soft nose you will have to play with case a little to get the rigt size.  Just a guess but maybe a 32 mag case.  After you pour the nose fill the mold the rest of the way with the harder lead.  Kind of gives you a pour man's partition.  The nose will expand like mad.  Maybe even blow off depending on the velocity.  But the bullet shank will hold together and penetrate.

Not sure what the meplat is on the lyman molds but I am guessing that something with a larger meplat might give better results also.

Chris

[quickdtoo]

Here's an article on casting soft nose bullets.

Tim

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=974&magid=71

[bilmac]

Thanks Quick, I have known about this technique for a long time but had never had any specific instructions. I've been thinking that I need to take dad's old 30-30 more seriously as it seems to be a lucky gun for me. Only trouble now I'm retired and don't have the time to mess with casting like I used to. Seriously, I bought a real fix er upper for my house and am not quite done with that job before a rental that was just too good to pass up became available. It needed a lot of work too. All this plus I live next to the best fishing hole in Wyoming which is a great distraction. I keep thinking someday I won't have anything to do and I'll get bored. Hasn't happened yet.

[jhalcott]

  I tried this "soft pointing" cast bullets to make an NEI pointed 45-70 bullet into a MORE reliable hunting bullet. I had been using an alloy of wheel weights. The 405 grain bullet killed deer but often they'd go for a long way  first. I made the noses from pure lead and the bodies from lino at first ,later I used wheel weights as the original bullets had exited every time. I then tried smaller and smaller caliber bullets. The smaller bullets are MOST critical of imperfections IF you intend to shoot any long distances..! 35 and larger are easier to make.A thing to remember is SIZING. The soft nose will be deformed if you try to size the bullets hard base first. A Lee push thru sizer is a good idea here. Another thing is you only NEED a few (12 to 15) for a whole season of deer hunting. The "normal" cast bullets will shoot very close to the soft points. I try for a third of the bullet being lead. This means a 405 grain bullet has about 130 grains of lead nose. You may find a better mix. Bruce B over on "cast boolets" wrote up a system of getting rid of the "joint" line where the 2 alloys meet. I'm basically a lazy guy and haven't seen a problem with the line YET!

[Sweetwater]

bilmac- I used to live in Sweetwater County, Wyoming, and ran my Gramp's 94Win 32Spcl through the ringer during one particular hunting season. I was using a borrowed Lee mold which threw a 182gr bullet from wheelweights and water cooled. Never had a problem running them full throttle. A buck antelope at 100 yards, through the shoulders, dropped on his nose. A doe antelope at 150 yards went about 20 yards and dropped. A muley at 120 yards and a small cow elk rounded the season. No bullets were recovered and no game were lost. Only the elk took a second shot - I was off my mark that morning. Hope this encourages you as you get time to get back at it. Good luck on your projects.

regards,
Sweetwater

[bilmac]

I think maybe the difference between dropping in their tracks and running when hit by a non-expanding bullet is whether you happen to hit bone on the near side. If you happen to put it neatly between two ribs, then you have a runner. I was really surprised at how far a delicate little antelope could go though, she kept up with the herd for probably .5 to .75 miles. I may give the soft point route a try now that I've seen something specific. I also have a hollow pointer, just the drill that goes on a case trimmer, that I haven't done much fooling around with either. Too many choices, not enough tags.

[Sweetwater]

Totally agree with that, and I did manage to hit some bone going in on all but the Muley. It was a quartering shot coming towards me and I raked him from shoulder to just ahead of the point of the opposite hip. He just swapped ends and dropped. His chest cavity was a mess, all tore up, but just a pencil hole for entry and exit holes. I guessed enough meplat to cause enough trauma to get the job done. I've not tried hollow-pointing or soft noses. Been too lucky with things like they are and my alloy is not very hard, in my opinion. It's straight wheel weights and not near as hard as my buddy's #2Lyman mix. I do water drop most of them.
Best of Luck. What part of Wyoming are you in? I was just "home" last week for my son's graduation and it made me very homesic.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[bilmac]

My retirement check could go anywhere I wanted and we had to move when I retired so I chose Shoshoni. Chiep housing, and great hunting and fishing.

[Sweetwater]

Great Choice!! I've been through there many times, usually just going through, but there was a guy I dealt with there at the Powder Horn - he made some great bullet lube. I bought some bullets from him way back before I was casting, and I shot an antelope buck with one of his out of my Blackhawk 41mag. A picture is posted on his info board at the shop. Haven't seen him in over 7 years and don't know if he's still in business. The motel is on the right going into town from down south (ie coming from Green River). Might be through there late this summer or early fall, as I'm planning a trip through Cody to Green River and then Denver or something like that.

My records show a lot of 29.5gr of H335 with a Lee 176gr Cast bullet and some 30gr of H335 with the same bullet. These were loaded for friends of mine and I never saw them perform, but one of my friends began loading his own and really like them enough to duplicate them. Another claimed he hit the 500 meter gong at the range on every shot....well....not sure I really believe that, but he asked for more of them everytime he ran out. At the time it was the only 30 caliber mold I had. I now have a Lyman #311411 I think it is that casts at 183gr with my wheel weights - I run the same loads as with the Lee without issues. Again, I don't use these in a 30-30 as I don't have one - I make these for friends and family. I do use them in my Dad's 30-06 and he loves them.

Regards,
Sweetwater