Older reloading manuals on E-bay

[stimpylu32]

Was looking around e-bay and thought to look and see what they had in the way older manuals , what I found was some of the older ones from the 80s and 90s are going at descent prices .

Some of the older Speer , Sierra , Hodgdon and even Hornady books are going for as little as $5 with $3 shipping , so for anyone looking to add a little reference material to your library this may be just the ticket .

stimpy

[charles p]

My oldest manual is a Hornaday.  Can't remember which powder it is, maybe 4831, but the manual doesn't say H or IMR.  There is a difference.  As long as you know the powder the older manual is referring to, it's no big deal.  I have an old Sierra manual with a load listing for 7mm-08 that will not go into a case - thus it's a misprint.

Best tp have several manuals.

[beemanbeme]

If it doesn't spell out IMR or H on the 4831, it's pretty old.  Where I think they're of real value is for the wanna be and the newbie.  Because the intro to reloading is pretty much set in stone and to, unless they're adding a powder like H1000 or Varget, if you're loading for a established cartridge like a 30-06 or a .270, the info isn't gonna change.

[PA-Joe]

There is one concern regarding the use of older manuals and that is that powder formulas have changes so the Red Dot of the 1980s is not the same as the Red Dot of today, and this is true of many powders adn primers. Today you can download the most recent data from the powder companies. Why not use the most current data? It is true that the basic reloading process has not changed and that is good reading.

[Lone Star]

PA is exactly correct, components have changed over the years.  The old H4831 listed in 30-year-old manuals was all surplus powder from various sources - today it is all recently manufactured and some lots vary from the old material.   Primers have changed in some brands (DOT/EPA regulations), and cases made 30 years ago often have a different internal capacity than those of recent manufacture. 

Perhaps the biggest difference is that old manuals usually did not use pressure measuring equipment when developing data, just case head expansion, primer appearance, etc.  These indicators are known to give false results, with very high pressures possible.  That is why some data from 30 years ago is lower than today's - it was a guess, now it is factual maximum pressure.  Lawyers had little to do with it, engineers did.  Strange how some believe that if the gun doesn't blow up then the data is safe - cartridge and firearm design parameters are ignored in the pursuit of higher velocities.....   

The old manuals are great references and historical documents and I have dozens - but their utility for good loading data is limited.


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[gary0529]

Lonestar stole all my thunder-You snooze here, you lose.

I have manuals dating back to when I started in 1962, nice for the memories, fun to reminisce but because powder formulations change over time, I don't rely on them with today's powders.

Too easy to get info today to risk messing up yourself or a nice weapon.

Buy a couple of current manuals, download what you need from factory sources and trust other internet sources with a grain of salt esp. near the top end. Some of these yahoos are scary with what they say they load and remember, YOU are pulling that trigger with YOUR face behind the action.

My .02

Gary

Stimpy was here , Don't even hint at that word on my forum !!!

[beemanbeme]

Perhaps I'm just a luddite. In fact, I am a luddite.
Some truth in what is posted but "new and improved" isn't always true nor is it always better.  TRIED and true is pretty reliable however. 
While empirical methods are not perfect they do have their place.  Just like over in the "pull down powder" thread, they 're not for everyone.  They are not 100% reliable. But then, neither are the most up to date, latest technology load books.  There needs to be a pinch of common sense mixed in there somewhere no matter what method you use.

[stimpylu32]

Granted the data may be out dated as far as powder compounds go , but there still a ton of useful info in these older books that will apply today as much as it did the day it was printed .

So don't overlook these just because their old .

stimpy

[Lone Star]

My oldest manual is a 1962 edition of the Speer Manual for Reloading Ammunition.  It has no number, but since Volume 1 was published in 1954 and this is called a revision, I believe this is number 2.

Interesting things of note - at this time Speer made only swaged cup-and-core bullets, not HotCore designs.  There is also a photo of a badly blown up Japanese Arisaka rifle, the one that Ackley apparently couldn't damage.  It seems Speer had better luck.....

It includes some less-than-wildly-popular wildcat cartridges like the .25 and .270 Ackley Magnums, and the .240 Page Super Pooper.  It includes other wildcats like the .35 Whelen and the .25 Neidner.  Now-discontinued bullets available in 1961 included the .257" 60-grain spitzer, the .277" 170-grain RN (new at that time), and the .333" 275-grain SP.

An interesting observation between this manual and Number 14 is in the loading data for the .22-250 cartridge and the 55-grain bullet.
Number 2: 38.0 grains of H380 was a max load at 3589 fps in a 24" barrel.
Number 14: 38.0 grains of H380 is a starting load at 3143 fps in a 24" barrel.

Lots of fun to read.....


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[stimpylu32]

Lone Star

Thank You , that helps to explain my point .

With so many rounds going by the wayside I like to keep a few of the older books on hand just for this kind of info , also with some of the so called Obsolete rounds making a come back in the Cowboy Action game its nice to be able to look and see what the case specs were suppost to be .

So I guess my point is that they may not have up to date load data , but they still have a perpose and can be very useful to the handloader .

stimpy

[beemanbeme]

That's why a fellow needs a Chrony.