confused as to auto function

[slim rem 7]

 at the range i had my little keltec that im so happy with .. now ive been putting a dab of grease at the friction pts,and thought i was making it work better .. yesterday at the range it was jamming on a rd id shot many times with no problem.. it still shot my carry load dpx corbon 80grn fine but had me confused..,now the difference ..its over 93 or so and humid with no air stirring..thats the only difference from the past ,when the winchester rd had fired so well..i went thru several rds of changes but decided i couldn t depend on it .. totally unacceptable..
   then as last resort i completely cleaned all lubricant from action and tried again... to my dismay i couldnt get it to jam on any rd .. im pretty happy but don t understand what the problem was .. now the spray degreaser cooled the gun ..but this is a pocket pistol so thats my preference ..i just need to understand how these auto loaders work better...any input appreciated.. except revolver .. that failed me once as i picked the wrong one..but i ll go there,, if i have another iffy experience like the one yesterday.. still i like what this little gun had given me..im assuming i just shouldn t have lubed it as i did.. confused

[Tom W.]

Too much lube is a bad thing.....as you saw when you wiped it off....All it needs is a tiny bit to make it function. Try a drop or two of Rem Oil or BreakFree CLP.

[Mikey]

Slim - I would first call Kal-Tec and see what they have to say about it.  If you are dealing with a polymer frame and a steel or aluminum slide you may need a different approach to lubrication, whether it be a different product or a different method of lubricating your gun, as Tom W. had mentioned. 

Also, some handguns run better dry, or nearly dry.  I remember once over lubricating a P-08 Luger only to have it get dirty and gummed up with the powder residue from the handloads I was shooting and she failed to go into battery.  A quick disassembly and wipe down and she shot better than ever.  I would still call Kal-Tec.  Mikey.

[slim rem 7]

 thanks i may use ballistol if i use anything .. it was invented by the germans in ww 2 its main advantage is that you can use it on plastic... so it saved hitler s little supply of metal..
   my own observation is that the action actually was working so fast it didn t grab the emty case .. i guess it was just too quick for it to grab the rim...in any case that was always the problem the emty case wasn t removed in the auto cycle.. so far without
 any lub it works fine..dangedest thing,, as i thought the less resistence in the action ,,the smoother it should work..before i ll fix something that aint broke again.. i will call kel tec..
  my family an friends marvel at the vehicles ive gotten 250 to 350 thousand out of just by keeping the lub ,fuel and air clean..have an nissan truck now that doesnt use at all at 200 tho.
knock on wood.. hope its my last work truck.. like me its not purty..  but unlike me it runs fine..
 guns a different thing tho .. thanks for the advice..slim.. ps i got lots to learn,no doubt.

[Mikey]

Slim:  ya siad - 'my own observation is that the action actually was working so fast it didn t grab the emty case'.  Gotta bust your chops a bit here, but all in fun - you must have Superman's eyesight to have observed the slide working that fast.........

When your slide moves forward to chamber a cartridge the extractor should slide over the cartridge rim so that upon firing the slide retracts and the extractor pulls the spent case from the chamber and the slide returns to battery chambering another round.  The extractor should have pulled each spent case from the chamber.  Possibly some lubricant fouled the chamber and possibly when you cleaned the action you also cleaned the chamber allowing for positive functioning. 

Something else too - these little pistols don't have large or heavy slides with lots of mass to help with chambering and extraction, and I would expect that just a little dirt could seriously impact the functioning of the pistol.  Here's an example:  my little Beretta 21A is the energizer bunny when it comes to plinking; it will go mag after mag after mag, until you fire off a couple of dirty rounds and then you can both see and feel it slowing down - a quick cleaning with a dry chamber brush and it is back to normal.  So I would expect your pistol needs to be kept clean, or at least the chamber kept clean in order for it to run right.

Here's a test - when you clean the gun, remove the barrel - after cleaning the chamber and bore, insert a fresh cartridge and with the chamber facing up, or facing the ceiling, see how difficult it is to get the round out of the chamber just by flipping the chamber up - round should slide/pop right out - if not, the chamber is tight and it should be kept really clean - always swab the chamber dry.  Also, since this is a pocket pistol it will pick up a lot of crap and lint from your pocket and that will jam the action. 

I had to take one of my 1911s in for repair and the gunsmith gave it a good cleaning in the process, but complained about all the lint buildup in the gun and didn't see how the thing could run like that.  I told him it runs just fine just like that but he didn't believe me.  Now this is my main carry piece, so 6 mo later I felt it had sufficient lint buildup again, brought it to his shop/range, let him look at it to see that it looked as bad as when he had previously cleaned it and then proceeded to put 100 round downrange without a hic-cough. 

My little Beretta 21A would not have been able to run like that as it needs to be kept much cleaner and lint free, and the slide does not have sufficient mass to function properly the piece properly when it's dirty.  I suspect it may be the same with your Kel-Tec and that you may have to keep it clean.  HTH.  Mikey.

[slim rem 7]

  busted i didn t mean i could see it ,,just that it looked like that was what was happening.... i actually thought the action was a recoil and then on return grab the empty,eject and push another round in the chamber on return ,while recocking gun.. so ive learned something.. as to clean,lent an such ..this one is not going to get the chance to show me iit will work clogged with lent an stuff.. not with my little hiney on the line ..as you might imagine its gone thru several different rnds recently ..i know the hydro shok ,corbon ,winchester and golden sabre flow thru, like water
  i had the berretta you have .. a great little pistol..mine didn t like any cheap ammo but the cci velicitor or quick shok went thru it like water.. got my ccp using that gun. 100%
 accurracy that day..i still have my taurus pt22 .. its double action and very similar to the action of the kel tec..so better for practice..
    my confidence is restored in my p3at kel tec.. the gun was not the problem but my lack of knowledge was..isn t this the case most of the time..
  ill stay away from too much pressure but think i ll find out if theres any standard rd it won t shoot now .. its broke in now and im thinking it ll feed most anything..
  we ll see. it will take a while as the price of ammo curtails buying ammo but all in good time.. thanks mikey..

[Mikey]

Slim - one brand of 380 I have never experienced problems with is the Sellier and Bellot.  Lots of folk put way too much faith in the 'enhanced performance' of 'massive shock' type slugs but seem to forget that most bullets moving out a 2" tube aren't moving fast enough to adequately expand or impart any stopping power beyond what plain ball ammo provides.  I have long felt the best round for the 380 is the plain old ball ammo but this is just my 2 cents worth.  Mikey.

[blhof]

At self defense range; point blank, even the lowly 22 has proven very effective.  No one likes to get shot and even hopped up bad guys will seek an exit when faced with immediate pain.

[warrior1]

you probably answered your own question. use the ballistol l. the grease is attracting some dirt and grime and possibly causing your malfunction.let us know if this does the trick. dan

[slim rem 7]

  to be honest i didn t use any lube today .. went thru several magazines and no problem until it got hot.. then it did fail to exstract a rd..this won t bother me as it really gets warm and i didn t buy this gun to win a gun fight..i figure after 7 tries i either
won or its not gonna be worrying me any.. plus im thinking id be more conservative than to just emty the gun fast as i could,, like i did today..it took over 30 rds fast as i could put them thru it ,,to get it to fail to eject..a little spray of rem oil and she was back in the game..

[Lloyd Smale]

I like tetra gun oil. I havent found anything better. On some of my bigger guns i also use tetra grease but for lower powered guns theres not enough slide momentum to overcome the viscosity of the grease.

[Mikey]

Slim - ok buddy, I think you may have answered your own questions.  There are any number of different lubricants you can use, and Lloyd and warrior1 have recommended two good ones, but I wonder if you aren't treating that pocket 380 the way you would treat a heavier caliber military style pistol with either a steel or polymer frame and running it too hot?

You said you went through several magazines until it got hot.....that's a lot hotter than just sitting in your pocket on a 93-100 degree day; in your pocket you can put your hand on it, after a couple of mags as fast as you can it is much hotter than that. 

Sounds like this one has to be kept clean but not over lubricated - good advice for a pocket pistol. 

I do not really think Ruger would make a pistol designed to fail but I do not believe they put the same 'long life capability' into a pocket pistol that they put into their larger handguns as the purpose of the two is different.  One is 'an immediate, in your face, fire as fast as you can defensive piece' that should easily last a couple of thousand rounds; the other may serve the same purpose but is built to 'shoot this thing forever' and would probably go through a thousand rounds in a session before getting too hot to function, if even then.  Examples in the same class are the Beretta pistols, especially the 21A and the Tomcat and Bobcat. If you shoot those things until they get hot, they may get too hot to function properly but for immedaite defensive purposes they function just fine.  HTH.  Mikey.

[slim rem 7]

  im thinking the same thing.. i got seven tries .. ive practiced enough at mugger distance that he d be really hurtin or dead . 2 to chest 1 to the head..
 the main thing is dependability and im satisfied that its gonna go bang at least 30 times before any problems.. all i need is seven..i have the protection rds but my favorite rd is the flat nosed winchester..ive had that rd bust heck outa some hard materials and go slam thru an 5 inch cedar post several times.. i was very surprised at that much penetration.. ..
 i just like this gun .. small as an berretta 22 frame and shoots real hard and effective...
  and best of all just stays buried inconspiciously in my pocket,,like my 25 an 22s always have..im the other pt of the success formula.. i can use a little gun like this very affectively.. i should,, ive spent hours and hours to get where im at now..no guess work ..just decide whether or not to use deadly force.. then hope im the better man with my weapon of choice..thanks for all the input slim..