Author Topic: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice  (Read 2025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687

A friend just bought a spanish made Hammerli Nova.  He brought it to me to mount the Centerpoint scope that came with a "packaged" deal.

We tried 4 different kinds of pellets at 50 ft and all grouped about 3/4 to one inch.  A few would put two pellets touching and the 3rd shot out to widen the group.   I dialed the scope in using the "group center" and he went home to start working over the starling population.

Next day he said the gun wasn't holding zero and it looked like the scope was moving.  Well, the scope base had shifted rearward and sheared off the screw that held the metal piece that was intended to keep the scope from shifting to the rear.  I found another screw and glass bedded the metal piece to supplement the screw's ability to withstand the scopes movement.  Cinched down the mount and put some lock tite on the screws holding the stock to the rifle.   

I tried resighting the scope however the adjustments didn't appear to be taking.  Between the wind blowing the target over and the snow freezing my trigger finger I bagged the sight in attempt, but did a final 3 shots w/o any sight adjustment.  Got about a 5 inch group at 50 ft.

Im guessing the scope may be going south (only been subjected to a max of 100 shots).  I want to take the scope off and see what the rifle does with the open sights, but the wind and snow has persisted all this week.

Any suggestions?  How tight do you folks torque the the screw that attaches the stock to the rifle?  Are airguns so sensitive to wind that a 5" group is possible at 50 feet, I felt like I was holding easily inside a dime sized bullseye?  What other techniques should I try to get his rifle shooting better? 

Any advice will be appreciated.

Silvertp

Offline scout4

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 584
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 12:51:07 PM »
Kind of sounds like the scope's been broken to me. If that rifle with its reverse recoil slammed the scope back that hard to break the screw holding the scope stop then it prolly did something to the scope. My good guess would be a new air rifle scope, one that can stand that wicked reverse recoil. scout4<><

Offline Yankee1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 04:02:26 PM »
I would buy a scope made for spring type air guns. Then also buy a stop for the scope. Air gun people will know what the stop is. It mounts on the scope base.
Do not rest the rifle on the bench. Put your hand between the bench and the rifle or it will recoil off the bench and you won't be able to get a decent group.
I would recommend high quality pellets such as JSB. Cheap pellets won't do what you want. If you shoot standing hold the rifle gently not hard.
                                 Let us know how you do.
                                      Yankee1

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 05:37:04 PM »
Well the snow finally let up, and the wind dropped to a steady breeze so I grabbed some pellets and did a little more investigation.

I fired groups with open sights and with the scope, with two different types of pellets.  In both instances my groups with open sights were about 1/2 the size of the groups shot with the scope.  I know I was holding better with the scope...as my old eyes just don't do the open sight thing that well.   

I know the rings and base were tight and not moving as I used loc-tite and made sure they were snugged.  That only leaves the scope internals to be jumping around.

Am I missing something???

Silvertp

Offline Troyboy

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (41)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
  • Work more talk less
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 02:57:44 PM »
Ya gotta get a scope that is "airgun rated". I got a 1000fps springer and the combo scope went south as well. As was stated the gun recoil is different than what a normal scope is made for. Ruins non "airgun rated" scopes fast.
.204 .22lr .22wm .25acp .223 5.56 .243 .25-06 6.5x55  .308  .300wbymag  7.5x54  7.62x25 7.62x39  338-06  9x19 .38spl  9x18 .45acp . 45-70 .500s&w 12rfl 12smb 20smb  .45lc 410smb .22hornet .280AI    Ask not what your country can do for you BUT what can YOU do for your country

Offline jimC2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 06:45:51 AM »
ask any question about airguns at gatewaytoairguns.com and they will try to help

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 09:19:01 AM »
Folks...thanks for the thoughts / suggestions.  I finally decided the scope had gone south.  When I could always shoot tighter groups with open sights than with the scope I knew something was not right. 

The place the scope was purchased approved the return.  They will check the scope, and if the scope is found defective they will send an RWS 3x9 scope back for a little extra cash.

We'll see how this goes.

Silvertp

Offline kennisondan

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2009, 03:46:47 PM »
on nmy springer I put two sets of scope rings and used nail polish to secure the screws and further marked the placement of the parts in case they moved.. it has not moved so far... I am using a nikon pro hunter taht i got with it.. it is a tx 200 22 cal and shoots great.dk

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
The Saga continues
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 10:20:18 AM »

Got a call from my buddy.  The company sent him a new / replacement scope, but not the RWS that he had requested.  Got another Centerpoint.  Hope to get it mounted up and see how the rifle  performs with the new optics.  Hopefully this is a "springer rated" scope.  Personally, I had never heard of the brand until I mounted up the last one.

I'll let folks know if the consistency / accuracy gets any better.  Cheers!

Silvertp

Offline DaveShooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2009, 05:47:45 PM »
Tom Gaylord whom is an avid airgun man of 30 plus yrs taks in a viedo at Pymarid Air .Com about the Artillery hold on springer airguns  as well suppose to work with regular firearms as well. If you can master this hold your groups will get much tighter. It does work. ;D ;D ;D

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 05:25:18 PM »
Daveshooter

Thanks for the information.  I have heard folks talk about the Artillery hold, but have no idea what it is.  I'll check out the video.

I did get the springer to shoot "fair" with the new scope.  At least consistently enough to sight it in.  I returned it to my friend, who said it still wasn't shooting and started messing with the adjustments again.  Oh well.

Silvertp

Offline Autorim

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 04:43:58 PM »
I highly recommend the RWS night pro scope.

Offline JPShelton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 10:56:22 PM »
Most new spring piston airguns require a bit of break in time before full accuracy potential is achieved.  During this break in, excess lube getting past the piston seal causes the gun to diesel, which isn't good for accuracy.  As the excess lube burns off and the piston seal wears in, the erratic dieseling ceases.


Spring piston air rifles are very rough on scopes, and the harsher and more unrefined they are, the harder they are on them.  They have a wicked "double snap" or "bi-directiona" recoil upon discharge that can really spell doom to reticles and erector mechanisms.

"Airgun Rated" isn't an automatic promise of longevity.  I had a Gamo Shadow 1000 eat up an "airgun rated" and fairly expensive Simmons Pro-Air in about fifty shots.  I mounted a Bushnell Sportsman 4-12 A.O. from Wally World to it and that "non rated" scope held up to 15,000+ rounds while I owned the rig and is still going strong.

I use the same scope on my brace of Beeman R-9's.  My .177 R-9 is a Goldfinger version that came with a bore-sighted Bushnell Banner.  I replaced it with the Wally-World Sportsman because it is clearer, with less internal flare.  Both of these have gone over 10,000 rounds without a hitch. 

You can't skimp on mounts.  I use British SportsMatch or the same thing marketed as the Beeman 5030M and have been using them since they hit the market way back when.  On R-Series Beemans, there are milled dimples on the top of the receiver meant for the recoil stop pin on these mounts.  This does the same job as a scope stop block.  On my Gamo Shadow, which didn't have such dimples, I simply drove the recoil stop pin competely out, and backed the rear ring mount with a Beeman Professional Series scope stop.  Zero on that rifle remains rock-solid constant to this day.

As for stock screw torque, I think that 25 inch pounds is about right for Beemans but will have to double-check that.  I have no idea what it would be for a Hammerli Nova. 

As for wind, the highest ballistic coeffecient you'll find in pellets you can use in a springer is about .032.  Most flat-head match pellets will be even worse at .009.  With BC's this low, wind IS totally capable of blowing pellets off course significantly. The same breeze that won't phase a .22 LR bullet much will blow a .177 pellet several inches off the mark at 50 yards.  So wind correction is part of the fun and challenge of airgunning.

-JP

Offline Silvertp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: If you know how to make a springer shoot I could use some advice
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2009, 07:46:04 PM »
Thanks everyone for the advices and recommendations.

JPShelton, thanks for the suggestion on the stock screw torque. 

Well I think we finally got the "springer" shooting.  I think it was a combination of trying lots of different pellets, finally getting a scope that would hold zero, plus probably enough rounds down the tube to get the break-in process going.

Not great groups by any means, but say dime sized for 5 shots at 25 yards.  My buddy is using it in a "sparrow and starling" control program in his back yard, and its working fine for that purpose.

Next will start working my springer over.  Noticed that the scope went south on it...groups went from great to "what the h_**"?  I'll probably start with new mounts and rings and scope.

First gotta finish up my 10/22 rifle project.  I'm not a multi-tasker when it comes to gun projects.

Silvertp