Help me! My Encore Bench Gun Project!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kisatchie]

Ok guys,  I have been a member here for sometime, first joined when the TC bug hit me.  I have and Encore and a G2, this site has been of great help to me, mostly just being able to read post and I usually find the info I need without ever having to even post a Question.  But this is different

My TC's are primarily used for hunting and just plinking and enjoyment, and I am very satisfied and love shooting them.  However, I have for sometime wanted to get involved in competitive shooting sports, but there was no local events or range in my area...Until Now!  Now I have a certified BenchRest Range 20 min from my home, and now I have access to shoot year-round.  I have been checking things out and there are 3 local events that are within 2-3hrs driving time for me..including the monthly Match at this new range.  This new Range is a 50-300 yd max course and another is 100-430yds, and the third being approx 700 yds max.

I have been told by many to forget the TC and go ahead and spend the big bucks and go Custom..ha ha   First of all, I want to shoot my Encore and G2 for the pure enjoyment for myself.  Secondly, I would love to see some of these non believers...eat their words  I already have the basics to build from with my (2) Actions and I can use my Boyd's Thumbhole stock...I am prepared to purchase new barrels, optics, etc to get me going.  Here is where I need your help!!!

I have full confidence that I can be competitive at the club level with these TC's, and I like being the odd ball  For the short range BR competition the dominate winner is The 6mmPPC, however the 6mmBR is heavily used but falls short to the tight groups of the 6ppc at 200yd and less.  Past that the 6mmBR is a heavy hitter along with the 30 BR for distance out to 1000yds.   I am considering having (2) barrels..one set up for the short BR events and one set up for everthing else. So far, this is what I am considering for my barrel purchases as far as caliber goes...Any suggestion?  Now comes the question...WHAT BARRLE MAKER...T/C Custom Shop, Bullberry, Van Horn..etc, oh and  don't leave out OTT and the (EDM) technology.  OTT can custom make the chamber to fit my dummy rounds...any experience with this?  I have read good things about David Van Horns work and I also have seen on a post that he can use your dummy rounds as well to custom fit your chamber....anyone done this?  Give me some feedback on your thoughts...I would really be grateful.

Ok, once I have the Action/Barrel combinations figured out, I want to focus on other factors.  So here we go!!!  Ok, I will be using my Boyd's Thumbhole Laminate stock....I plan to purchase a BR style forend from Georgia Jim's....I have already exchanged emails with him on this and he can fix me right up to match my existing stock. So, any suggestion on free-floating, hangar-bars, glass bedding...etc or will the old washer trick do?  

Ok,  Optics?  I want to stay reasonably priced.  I am looking at Weaver & Burris.....Leupold is a tad bit out of my price range for the target scopes...(but that is all I use for my hunting rifles).  I want a variable scope so that rules out the Super Sniper Scopes.  Any suggestions as far as reticles...mill-dot vs. fine reticle...etc.  Let me hear you thoughts.

Now we move on the Trigger jobs etc.  I did my own trigger job on the G2, it is now at 2.25#.  I can also do the same for my Encore....but do I need to go lighter on the pull, to be honest I feel confident at the 2lb level.

Of course we have to mention Mr.($#%&*) himself and the oversized hing pins.....and other custom items.....any thoughts?  Could these help?

Now I hope I have given enough info. the get you guys going.
Remember I want to keep it fun, use my TC's and be competitive..Thanks in advance!

Also, if there are any other TC shooters here that shoot their TC's in BR Matches..Shoot me a PM.....I have so many questions

[Grumulkin]

It would help if you could tell us three things:

1.  When you shoot a bench rest match, will the match be at one range during the match or at various ranges and what would those ranges be?
2.  I would presume they have various categories for the various rifles such as barrel weights, allowable calibers for a given category, etc.  It would help if you could tell us what those are.
3.  For those people you intend to compete with, what group sizes would be competative?

As far as accurizing G2s and Encores are concerned, I do use oversized hinge pins and think they may help a little.  I don't do anything special with stock bedding, hanger bars, etc.  I do think a trigger job is important and, for me, 2 to 2.5 lbs. is about right.

I only have one barrel made by someone besides T/C and it's a 44 Mag. handgun barrel made by SSK Industries that I bought used.  If I were going to have a custom barrel made, I would probably choose OTT.

I participated in bench rest matches when I lived close enough to a range that had them.  I didn't shoot Encores or Contenders at that time but know from the experience I've gained since then that they would be quite competitive at least against the guys I used to shoot with.  If I were you, I would go one step further and shoot the matches with a handgun barrel.

[teddy12b]

I’ve got and encore, but my barrels are 30-06 & 50cal muzzloader.  I think what you’re trying to do is awesome and I want to encourage you to do it.  Nothing makes me happier than to see a confused look on a guys face when they see you hitting the target with a gun that doesn’t cost $3000.

I don’t know anything about the 6mm barrels, but I do know something about affordable scopes that work well.

I used to have a weaver classic V 4-16 fine reticle.  That scope was awesome for the shooting range and I only sold it because of a baby on the way.  I’m also a big fan of the Nikon buckmaster series scopes.  I’ve owned one in 6-18 in nikoplex and then switched to 4.5 – 14 mildot for hunting.  If you’re never going to use the scope for real hunting, the weaver classic v with the fine reticle would be an outstanding scope for you.  If you might need to see your crosshairs on something other than a target, you may want to consider a Nikon buckmaster.  Had my weaver on a savage 223 out to 700 yards before the bullets just ran out of gas, and the Nikons have gone out to 1000 yards on my 30-06.

Good luck and let us know what kind of accuracy you get out of your gun.

[Lone Star]

I've competed in BR competitions with my Contender handguns in the past (and with different rifles) and can offer a few suggestions that are BR specific.  A lot depends on how competitive you want to be and how much you want to spend.

Forget T/C, go with a true custom accuracy barrel maker.  I had outstanding results with Bullberry, but that was a few years ago.  OTT has a good rep, but I have no personal experience.  Get the best you can afford, and make certain that the chamber is cut to minimum dimensions and is aligned with the bore.  Not all are.....  Too, high quality dies are another requirement.

You cannot use the PPC or BR cases in the Contender.  The 6x45, 6TCU or 6x47 are probably the best choices for the smaller frame.  The Encore can handle cartridges better suited for greater than 300 yards.  Regardless you must spend some $$$ on a trigger job on either frame.  I was able to get around 1# with range safety, but that is very heavy by BR standards.  A light consistent trigger is very important to BR accuracy.

Stocks must ride the bags smoothly and consistently.  If your thumbhole doesn't ride the bags well then either change it so it does or get another that does.  Gun handling is a major part of accuracy off the bench and anything you can do to improve your performance there will result in smaller groups/higher scores.  Practice is a big part of this....many shooters who do not practice gun handling will never shoot groups smaller than moa no matter what the potential of their rifle really is.  Hand the forend off the barrel hanger, it must not touch the frame and it must be very firmly attached to the hanger.  Speaking of bags, depending on the rules spend a lot of time choosing these.

Scopes - depends on the distance to the target.  Higher power is an advantage.   You cannot shoot tiny groups at 100+ yards with a 10X scope, the rules may affect your choice of power.

After you get the rigs completed you will need to practice.  It is amazing how poorly your rifles will shoot in competition compared to how they shoot when you are by yourself practicing at the range.  Competition requires you to perform on demand, just like hunting does.   The yayhoos who say their T/Cs always shoot 1/4" groups just never seem to do it in competition..... 

[Graybeard]

If you are hoping to compete successfully meaning actually WIN some matches take the advice given and get a single shot bolt rifle specifically set up for the game. If you just want to use your TCs and enjoy shooting but don't expect to be the big winner then go ahead and have fun. You can set up the TCs to shoot really well but they are not and never will be competitive with single shot bolt guns in the real down and dirty competition level of benchrest shooting.

For optics I'd go with Bushnell Elite personally altho most of the serious folks I think use Leupold or Sightron these days. They also boost the power to get even higher magnifications than the factory offers. If/when you get truly serious and want to win matches you'll have to go that route as well most likely. Until then and while using your TCs I think the Bushnell is the best bang for the buck.

I really like their Elite 4200s in 6-24 and have them both with AO and side focus. I'd as soon have them as any brand out there personally. I also am in love with the Elite 3200 7-21 which gives you almost all the magnification of the 6-24 for a lot less bucks and it is a super scope I use on some of my varmint rifles. Midsouth Shooter's Supply sells them at $358 or did when I bought my last one at least. I'll be picking up another soon.

[kisatchie]

It would help if you could tell us three things:

1.  When you shoot a bench rest match, will the match be at one range during the match or at various ranges and what would those ranges be?
2.  I would presume they have various categories for the various rifles such as barrel weights, allowable calibers for a given category, etc.  It would help if you could tell us what those are.
3.  For those people you intend to compete with, what group sizes would be competitive?

Shooting Various Ranges of 100-700 yds
Shooting in Varmit Class, no limits on Caliber, these are mostly stock Rifles with some Custom Work
I wont be competing in the Full Custom Class, but I have seen some groups at 300ys under 1.75" 5 shots

Forget T/C, go with a true custom accuracy barrel maker.  I had outstanding results with Bullberry, but that was a few years ago.  OTT has a good rep, but I have no personal experience.  Get the best you can afford, and make certain that the chamber is cut to minimum dimensions and is aligned with the bore.  Not all are.....  Too, high quality dies are another requirement.

You cannot use the PPC or BR cases in the Contender.  The 6x45, 6TCU or 6x47 are probably the best choices for the smaller frame.  The Encore can handle cartridges better suited for greater than 300 yards.  Regardless you must spend some $$$ on a trigger job on either frame.  I was able to get around 1# with range safety, but that is very heavy by BR standards.  A light consistent trigger is very important to BR accuracy.

I too like the fact that OTT can custom my Chamber to fit my Dummy Rounds...Also Van Horn is heavy on my mind..Good point Thanks....

If you are hoping to compete successfully meaning actually WIN some matches take the advice given and get a single shot bolt rifle specifically set up for the game. If you just want to use your TCs and enjoy shooting but don't expect to be the big winner then go ahead and have fun. You can set up the TCs to shoot really well but they are not and never will be competitive with single shot bolt guns in the real down and dirty competition level of benchrest shooting.

Yes I am just getting into this and all I want for now is to competed and have fun...sure winning is nice but that's not everything.  I feel like with my TC's I can join in and be competitive to a point...I am sure if I get serious about this I will go Custom, however for now I will be around these folks learning the ins and outs..and enjoying my TC's.  Even if I go Custom later on...I will never give up my TC"s

So far everyone has stressed some really great points..I like the course this post has taken..keep em comin!!!!

[Graybeard]

You really need to get Van Horn OFF YOUR MIND.

[Grumulkin]

In the first bench rest match I ever entered (not a big time one), I took first place in "Heavy C" using a Remington 742 semiauto chambered in 308 Winchester.  It was not what one would call a bench rest rest rifle and the other contestants were a bit surprised as was I.

If you are to use one rifle for ranges up to 700 yards, you'll need a cartridge suitable for wind bucking ability.  The ones I would choose from for this task in order of ascending caliber would be:

25-06 Remington
6.5X284
308 Winchester
30/06 Springfield
300 Winchester Magnum

By the way, I'm quite sure my off-the-shelf T/C 25/06 barrel is capable of 1.75 in. 300 yard groups.  My best 3 shot 100 yard group with that rifle measured 0.15 inches.

If you go with an OTT barrel, you can also get a set of dies made specifically for your chamber.

If you're going to have a custom barrel made, consider what bullets you'll use.  I strongly favor Berger VLD bullets but Sierra and Nosler also make excellent match bullets.

[kisatchie]

You really need to get Van Horn OFF YOUR MIND.

Care to elaborate?  I am curious what I may have missed.  I know that every barrel maker out there get bad feedback at times..its just the nature of things...now if one is constantly producing poor equipment that is a total different story...but those guys don't seem to be around for long.  How long has David Van Horn been making Barrels?   I have heard good things on his work...lots of info out there that is Very Positive.  Of course OTT has the new EDM tech.  From what little I know, the ability to have a custom Chamber fitted to the round you prefer to shoot does more for accuracy concerns than any other aspect of the rifle.  This is where accuracy starts, once that round is chambered and fired...the other elements come into play, but if you start out with inconsistencies in the get go...only so much improvement is achievable. 

In the first bench rest match I ever entered (not a big time one), I took first place in "Heavy C" using a Remington 742 semiauto chambered in 308 Winchester.  It was not what one would call a bench rest rest rifle and the other contestants were a bit surprised as was I.

Congratulations on your part...I bet they were all shocked...Good for you, Just goes to show that always following the crowd isn't always the best path for yourself! Best of all you had Fun and enjoyed a good time.

Thanks for all post so far...Keep the feedback coming....
Please anyone who has had experience good are bad with any of the makers mentions...I want to hear your opinions.  Thankyou

[roostertails]

If you are serious about benchrest shooting don't use stocks that are made for offhand hunting.
Get a set of benchrest stocks ,  I got a set for for a customer from Gunstocks Inc..

[LaOtto222]

I have a guy I work with that was hot about bench rest shooting and 1000 yd shooting with his Encore. Sounds a lot like you. He ordered a 26" bull barrel from Match Grade Machine in Norma 6mm-BR. He specified the lead length and twist rate for 100 grain bullets. He mounted a Weaver 24X on his. He purchased Lapua brass and LE Wilson hand dies for sizing and seating bullets. He was real fussy about his hand loading, turning necks, uniforming primer pockets, trimming, seating the bullets .015" INTO the lands (his best accuracy, he said) - the whole ball of wax. He says his rig is 13 pounds. He shot in a couple of 100 yd matches and seemed to lose interest. He was not competing with the best from across the nation, just some of the local boys. He placed about in the middle of the pack. I think all of the other guns were bolt actions of various makes. I am not sure, but I think he was shooting about in the .3 area with some wind, he said he had to read the flags. I do not think he got the performance he was hoping for; I should say I think he got the performance he was hoping for, but found out it did not compete. I do not think he ever did shoot in any 1000 yard matches. I am not sure what you expect, if you truly just want to shoot and have fun, have at it. If you want to be competitive (read win) even on a local level, spend the bucks and get a rig set up for the task. Just a  .1" difference can mean the difference of winning and being in the middle of the pack. Good Luck and Good Shooting.