Trail Boss and Jacketed Bullets?

[jackinil]

Everything I read about Trail Boss mentions using it with cast bullets. I have a 45-70 Buffalo Classic I'd like to try Trail Boss in[those factory loads &&^% hurt!]. I already have some jacketed 300 gr HP but if it's not feasible or a safety issue I'll use cast.TIA      Jack

[quickdtoo]

The IMR website is under construction, but I found this discussion at Shooters Forum that explains why there's no Trailboss jacketed data....

"Trail Boss was designed for use with lead bullets only. It does not like jacketed bullets and performs poorly with them. We have no plans to offer jacketed bullet data because of the poor performance."

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=23553

From ADI...

Trail Boss is designed specifically for low velocity lead bullet loads for Single Action shooting. It is based on a whole new technology which allows very high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in regard to temperature variation and most importantly, additional safety to the handloader.

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/powder.asp

I'm sure a call/email to Hodgdon will discourage the urge to use Trailboss with jacketed bullets.

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/contactus.html

[trotterlg]

More than likely this is what you are looking for.  Larry

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/5744.htm

[tykempster]

How about some Unique (10-15 grains) under some filler, under your bullet of choice?  Maybe up the ante a bit and go to 20 grains for jacketed heavier ones.  15 grains should get a 300 grainer out the barrel.

[BBF]

Lyman lists SR-4759 for very mild loads using a jacketed 300 gr Bullet

24.0 gr for 1290 fps @ 14,00 CUP      to         27.0 g for 1420 fps @ 16,500 CUP


Sierra shows the follwing from a 32 1/2 inch Barrel

Powder 2400   24.5 gr for 1450 fps

from a 26" barrel

Powder 2400   29.8 gr for 1650 fps

Personally I think the 45-70 is just more fun to shoot with cast bullets.

[PHATINJUN]

5744 works very well for the 45/70. Kurt

[jackinil]

I picked up some 405gr FN lead bullets from Cabelas to try with the Trail Boss. Looking in a few loading manuals I noticed loads for jacketed bullets using Varget,which I have on hand. Will try that at a later date.

[bluebayou]

I don't understand what difference that it would make if the bullet is jacketed or not. 

I accept that jacketed bullets don't lead the barrel....so maybe they have less friction.....so the burn time is shorter?

Logically, I would think that a "heavy for caliber" bullet would work with Trailboss. 

Was thinking about using it or Unique for some .38 loads for the boy to shoot.  Haven't gotten around to it. 

[dpe.ahoy]

Jacketed bullet has more friction than lead.  TrailBoss was made to fill the case a lot more than light loads of other powders.  You should be able to use jacketed bullets, but, that isn't what it was made for.  Not sure if it might have a pressure spike using more powder with jacketed bullets or not.  Shouldn't, I see loads listed for cast in the 454 Casull and 460 S&W.  Pressures are still under 25000 PSI for them.  DP.

[trotterlg]

If the people who make Trail Boss say it doesn't woprk well with jacketed bullets I would say it would be prudent to believe them.  If the people who make 5744 say it was designed to work for reduced loads in large bore cartriges I would say it would probably be appropriate to believe them.  Amazes me to see how many people just don't  listen to the people who really know what they are talking about.  You could just start loading small amounts of whatever you have on the shelf for reduced loads and see what happens, coud be entertaining if there is anyone left to post pictires.  Reduced loads can be very hazardous, seems wrong but it is true, do a little research before you delve into the black art of extreme reduced loads.   Larry

[bluebayou]

I don't load anything without the powder maker's approval except for some cautiously extrapolated .360 DW loads.

I guess that I need to be more specific in my phrasing.  How about:

"Was thinking about using it or Unique for some .38 loads for the boy to shoot.  Haven't gotten around to it.  I guess that I won't since it isn't a recommended powder.  Having looked at the Hodgdon website I see that I was wrong.  The powder that I was thinking of is 'Universal' not 'Unique'.  Also, the loads are based on the 357 brass instead of the 38 brass.  I guess that I am lucky that I still have all of my fingers and eyes after thinking on my own there for a minute."

Maybe that is a little more sarcastic than I originally intended as Larry is an alright guy. 

If you aren't cautious by nature then don't handload. 

I still would like a gallery type load for 38 for the boy.  Shouldn't be hard to find one.  Cast bullets would probably be cheap as all get out.  Doesn't have to cycle an action in the NEF, now I am getting kind of excited.  Going to do some reading.

[Graybeard]

The problem with too light loads using jacketed bullets and even more so with half jacket bullets is that the friction of the jacket might cause it to stick in the barrel and the core to contine on out the barrel. You assume it cleared the barrel when in fact it really did not but only partially cleared. Then you fire another round with the jacket as a barrel obstruction and seriously bad things happen.

Even if you look down the barrel every time and make sure all cleared prior to firing again what ya gonna do when that one time you look down it you see the jacket stuck? It's not all that easy to remove them, do able yes but not so easily and you may or may not have the needed tools with you at the range.

Sure folks experiment all the time and most times survive it OK due to the truly extra strength manufacturers build into their firearms knowing some of us are gonna push the envelope. Then too SAAMI pressure levels are set such that the average gun has a huge safety margin build into it. But if ya ignore all the warnings and strike out on your own into unknown territory where the powder makers and all load manual publishers say don't then sooner or later it's gonna bite ya in the butt.

[Smokin Joe]

Guys, if you call or e-mail IMR, they will give you the straight scoop. They've called me at home on several occasions to give answers to various questions.