RCBS X Die

[30-06man]

I heard about this when watching Shooting USA the other night. They claim you only have to trim your bass the one initial time for the life of the brass. Have any of yall used it? Is it worth the money?

[Hairtrigger]

The X-Die is money well spent. I have one in 220 Swift. It is just as RCBS advertises... Trim your brass before reloading the first time and the brass will not need to be trimmed again.
It seems odd to me that other die makers have not started making their own version.

[30-06man]

Thanks. I will be trying one.

[Dave in WV]

My son has one. He trims now instead of using the X die function. He had overpressures in hot weather after several loadings of the cases he had. He tossed the brass and has never had an overpressure since. The only thing he changed about his load was the trimming. I got one and started using it but I quit using the x die function since. Every now and then someone will post (I go to several forums) about having the problem with the x die. If you have a cartridge that is prone to grow like a .243, the brass has to go somewhere.

[Savage]

Hadn't thought about it, but what Dave says makes a lot of sense!!! I certainally wouldn't use one if I were loading max loads! Thanks for the insight Dave.
Savage

[Dave in WV]

Savage, I'd rather err to the side of caution when it comes to reloading.  My son wasn't loading a max load when he had the experience. He has used the same load for a while and had fired them in hot weather before and has since.

[Hairtrigger]

did you merasure the neck thickness? Happen to call RCBS and tell them your story?
Same batch of powder?
I would be slow to blame the die without measuring the brass first!

[Dave in WV]

I'll posting a reply made by John Barsness over on 24 hour campfire. The topic is about erratic pressures with the .243.

"The .243 does stretch and thicken necks in some rifles. The first .243 I owned did, and since I was beginning handloader some strange things happened before I figured it out.

The other problem with the round is that throats can erode more quickly than with some other, similar rounds. The best guess is that this is also because of the shoulder angle and short neck, combined with the relatively small bore. Contrary to what our forefathers believed, an eroded throat actually increases pressures, for a couple of reasons, at least at first. There have been some .243's with worn throats that blew up in pressure labs, with everything on record, so this isn't a figment of the imagination.

But with normal care and some knowledge of the possible probems, a .243 will do fine work for a long time. Certainly a couple of mine have. "

The rifle my son had the high pressure with is a .243 Savage 110. He used the X die instead of trimming and had trimmed the brass as per the instructions before using the die to control the brass length. My .243 brass "grows" and I trim it after each resizing. The .243 is not a cartridge I'd use a X die for. Your experiences may vary.

[Dave in WV]

Hairtrigger , he had fired the brass a few times before his high pressures were experienced. He pulled the bullets and saved the powder IIRC. He used the  powder with the same lot# and same bullets in new brass of the same lot# with no further problems. I contacted RCBS and the lady I spoke to said if the directions are followed there have been no documented instances of case necks thickening. As I posted before the only change my son has made was not using the die to control case length and he has had no more problems.

[30-06man]

I'll posting a reply made by John Barsness over on 24 hour campfire. The topic is about erratic pressures with the .243.

"The .243 does stretch and thicken necks in some rifles. The first .243 I owned did, and since I was beginning handloader some strange things happened before I figured it out.

The other problem with the round is that throats can erode more quickly than with some other, similar rounds. The best guess is that this is also because of the shoulder angle and short neck, combined with the relatively small bore. Contrary to what our forefathers believed, an eroded throat actually increases pressures, for a couple of reasons, at least at first. There have been some .243's with worn throats that blew up in pressure labs, with everything on record, so this isn't a figment of the imagination.

But with normal care and some knowledge of the possible probems, a .243 will do fine work for a long time. Certainly a couple of mine have. "

The rifle my son had the high pressure with is a .243 Savage 110. He used the X die instead of trimming and had trimmed the brass as per the instructions before using the die to control the brass length. My .243 brass "grows" and I trim it after each resizing. The .243 is not a cartridge I'd use a X die for. Your experiences may vary.

Probably wouldn't be a good ideal for the WSM's, WSSM's, and RCM's if they even make the die for them. I will try one soon.

Thanks

[corbanzo]

I have taken way too much brass off of bottleneck cartridges to trust them to a die such as the x die.

[Savage]

I think with the information we have here, and a bit of applied logic, would seem to indicate that an unsafe condition could result from the use of this die. I think I'll continue to check case length and trim when required.  I've never considered the "X" die, and had no opinion of them prior to this thread.  Again, thanks Dave for pointing out the obvious!
Savage

[Hairtrigger]

I think with the information we have here, and a bit of applied logic, would seem to indicate that an unsafe condition could result from the use of this die. I think I'll continue to check case length and trim when required.  I've never considered the "X" die, and had no opinion of them prior to this thread.  Again, thanks Dave for pointing out the obvious!
Savage

It seems to me there are many of opinions here but no facts. It seems some here have NEVER USED an X-Die but are nay sayers! No one other than myself has ever measured neck thickness as they have loaded a piece of brass several times!! Fact is I have not measured as I go but have measured several cases of my 220 Swift that have been loaded 8 times and compared them to new... the necks have not thickened. I wish I would have measured them from the start rather than comparing them to  new but too late for this argument.

Unfortunately this is another case of internet experts that have no experience!

[Savage]

I think with the information we have here, and a bit of applied logic, would seem to indicate that an unsafe condition could result from the use of this die. I think I'll continue to check case length and trim when required.  I've never considered the "X" die, and had no opinion of them prior to this thread.  Again, thanks Dave for pointing out the obvious!
Savage

It seems to me there are many of opinions here but no facts. It seems some here have NEVER USED an X-Die but are nay sayers! No one other than myself has ever measured neck thickness as they have loaded a piece of brass several times!! Fact is I have not measured as I go but have measured several cases of my 220 Swift that have been loaded 8 times and compared them to new... the necks have not thickened. I wish I would have measured them from the start rather than comparing them to  new but too late for this argument.

Unfortunately this is another case of internet experts that have no experience!

As you are the one using the "X" die, and hands down the most experienced "Internet Expert" yet posted to this thread. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the brass goes, as acording to your expert observations, it doesnt flow into the case neck. Simple minds can't help buy wonder, "Where do it go?"
Savage

[Dave in WV]

I have a X die and have used it. It does keep the cases from growing. I have not measured the neck wall thickness. I now trim my .243 brass after each resizing. I have passed on information. I don't have lab test results.  If someone wants to use a X die go for it. I have one for my .243 and don't trust it. If I had X dies for my 30-06 and 7mm-08 I would use them. If someone wants my .243 X die, they can have it for the price of shipping.

[Hairtrigger]

As you are the one using the "X" die, and hands down the most experienced "Internet Expert" yet posted to this thread. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the brass goes, as acording to your expert observations, it doesnt flow into the case neck. Simple minds can't help buy wonder, "Where do it go?"
Savage

Can't say using an X-Die makes one an expert but it does let one measure those ever (NOT) thickening necks!  How would a neck decide between thickening and growing? 
I guess I have had enough experience with RCBS that I know they make a good product and have a good reputation, the X-Die is not a new product. If the X-Die caused thickening of the case neck and guys were hurting rifles the product would be pulled from the market....... maybe those scumbag lawyers do have a place in society

[Savage]

I agree that RCBS makes good products.  Just checked out RCBS site and learned that they suggest you initially trim the brass .020 under max length before the first trip thru the "X" die. Then the instructions for setting up the die recommend  cranking the mandrel down hard against the case mouth. Being careful not to overtighten, bulging the case. They then say that the cases would not require trimming again during their usable lifetime.  For those who have found this product useful, great. I'll still continue to trim my cases to optimal length between loadings.
Savage

[Dave in WV]

"I contacted RCBS and the lady I spoke to said if the directions are followed there have been no documented instances of case necks thickening. "

I never said the necks thickened, just he had high pressures and when he stopped using the X die to control case growth the problem hasn't happened since.  He uses his X die as a conventional resizing die with no problems.