Choosing PCR .44 Rifle for Indiana Deer Hunting - Recommendations?

[whitfang]

Last year, Indiana allowed Pistol Cartridge Rifles (PCRs) in the firearm season for deer. 

I was thinking of buying a lever action (or possibly semi-auto) rifle in .44 magnum to be used for whitetails. 

Some possible choices are:
     Ruger 96/44 .44 lever action
     Marlin 1894 .44 lever action
     Henry .44 lever action
     Puma .44 lever action
     Winchester Model 94 .44 lever action

Can you help with some pros and cons for these rifles?  I normally use a Remington 12ga rifled slug, Encore 12ga rifled slug, or Browning .308 (for depredation season) and I want to be sure and get a rifle that will be accurate up to about 125 yards.

Also, probably looking for a rifle in blue (to save $$$) and with a round barrel (to save weight).

Not considering single shots since I already have a bunch of Encore barrels.  It has to take a scope since my eyes are getting older.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Rangr44]

JMO, but you didn't list the best choice: The Old Model Ruger .44 Auto Carbine - Lightweight, EZ 2 scope or peep, EZ 2 sling, good accuracy & quality.
Another plus - The only game-perceptible movement is your trigger finger.



Some possible choices are:
     Ruger 96/44 .44 lever action
     Marlin 1894 .44 lever action
     Henry .44 lever action
     Puma .44 lever action
     Winchester Model 94 .44 lever action

Of your list, IMO, they would be (in order of my preference):

1) Marlin 1894 .44 lever action -  Lightweight, smooth, easily peeped or scoped - scout or conventional, accurate, EZ 2 sling.

2) Puma .44 lever action - Lightweight, usually smooth, easily peeped, not easily scoped, so-so accuracy & quality.

3) Ruger 96/44 .44 lever action - Medium to heavyweight, easily scoped, so-so to good accuracy, EZ 2 sling.

4) Winchester Model 94 .44 lever - Light to medium weight, easily peeped, scopable w/gunsmithing (except AE model), good accuracy, fair quality.

5) Henry .44 lever action - Heavyweight, w/smooth action, easily scoped, not easily peeped, good accuracy, fair quality.
The shiny, Brassie receiver, etc, is a definite minus for most hunting.

[whitfang]

Would you put the Ruger automatic at the top of the list?

Does the list change much if you factor price into it?

Why is a Puma hard to put a scope on?  And who manufactures the Puma rifle?

[Keith L]

I have never known anyone who got any kind of real accuracy from either of the Ruger 44s (auto or lever).  I am partial to the Marlins.

[Rangr44]

Yes, I would put the Ruger auto at the top of the list.

This is why:



[Posted by: Keith L - I have never known anyone who got any kind of real accuracy from either of the Ruger 44s (auto or lever).]

That group was shot @ 100 yds with factory 240 JSP ammo.  I practice with 3-shot groups - after all, how many deer stand around & let a shooter "group" five shots in their vital area ?  In reality, it's where the first shot impacts, that counts.

Does the list change much if you factor price into it ?

No.  Poor quality is remembered after a cheap price is long forgotten, but good quality will be remembered forever.

Why is a Puma hard to put a scope on ?

They are top-ejecting, requiring a gunsmith-installed side mount with it's attendant sighting issues, or a forward scout-type $60 mount needing gunsmith installation (more $$) and an intermediate eye relief (or "scout") scope ( + $250).

who manufactures the Puma rifle ?

All modern clones of the original Winchester Model 92 are made either in Japan (Winchester/Miroku), Italy (Navy Arms, Cimarron, etc), or South America ( EMF, LSI, Puma, Rossi, etc, etc).
Pumas are imported from S.A.

[whitfang]

Sportsman's Warehouse had one PCR, a Henry in .44 at $699.  They are nice looking - and heavy and expensive!  The gun sales manager said naturally there's been a run on PCR-type rifles because of the new law.

Dick's Sporting Goods had one PCR, a round-barrel Marlin in .44 at $479.  The stock felt real short, like a juvenile model, but it wasn't.
These all seem to be 'short' stocked - is that because they were originally meant to be saddle guns?

Gunbroker.com and GunsAmerica have a good selection of Marlins and some Rugers, but they don't seem to be any cheaper than buying local, and you've got shipping and FFL dealer fees to pay.

I need to go to Gander Mtn in Indy and one other local dealer and see what they've got.

I've got it narrowed down to the Marlin or Ruger (either lever or auto).  The Ruger lever action in 44 seems to be pretty rare - I haven't seen one online or in a store yet.

 



 

[Keith L]

Ranger 44, if you are happy with that accuracy then you have the right gun for you.

[jimster]

whitfang, if you go with a lever action, since you say you want a scope on it, Marlin might be your best choice, it's set up for scope mounting already drilled and taped.
The length of pulls are pretty short on most lever carbines, they were designed to come up and get on your shoulder fast, but you could always add some length to the stock easy enough if it's way to short for you.  Lot's of recoil pads out there to choose from.  I haven't seen many Ruger auto's around this area, they seem to be rare here as well.  The only Ruger auto's I'm familiar with are the old Ruger 44's....they were way to fusy for me as far as ammo, but maybe the newer ones are better.
Happy shoping, that's always fun!

Jim

[whitfang]

Just got back from Gander Mtn - they are way expensive!!!  They had some used Marlins and Henrys 'on sale' that were more expensive than new ones from Dick's.

Now to try some independent dealers - see how their prices are.

[jimster]

Ya, I don't even go into Gander Mtn around these parts anymore, they sell their guns at retail prices at least, and ammo and accessories are no exception.  Last time I went there I told them I could buy any gun they had in their window for 100 bucks cheaper, and haven't been back since.  I like the little gun shops, they don't always have what you need, but can order them.

[Rangr44]

Since the rings on that target are 1" apart, making it a 1" @ 100yds group, you could say that I am pretty happy with that , especially from a peep-sighted semi-auto.

whitfang:

A .44 Auto:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/970943755/Guns/Rifles/Ruger-Rifles/M44-Carbine/Ruger_44_Carbine.htm  (GA is a F/S, not an auction, site)

A Ruger .44 lever w/"buy-it-now" price:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=103934898

Auction items:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8692442   ( Currently @ $320, closes in 19hrs)

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8694064  (Currently @ $375, closes in 7 days)

[whitfang]

Hmmmm.....  That last one is a Ruger carbine with a 4-shot tubular magazine.   I thought they were all 4-shot removable box magazines.

[Rangr44]

My apologies, whitfang - I didn't realize you didn't know the difference.

My original recommendation was, and still is, for the original, tube magazine, (or Old Model) Ruger .44 Auto Carbine (1961-1985) - and not the clip-fed (1999-2004?) Ruger Model 99/44 Deerfield auto-loader, which is a derivative of the Ruger Mini-14.

[ you didn't list the best choice: The Old Model Ruger .44 Auto Carbine ]

Both Ruger .44 auto's, on the sites I listed above, are Old Models.
The first is on GA - a direct purchase, not an auction, site - while the last gun is in the auction bidding process, where you take your chances.

I currently own/use both an Old Model Ruger .44 Auto, and a .44 Marlin 1894P outfitted scout-style - and use either as my whims decide. 
Neither is a bad choice.

This is a scout setup on a .44 Marlin 1894:

[whitfang]

I am waaay more ignorant than you can imagine! 

Just to prove that's true, I don't even know for sure why you would use the 'scout' method of scope mounting!  Is the Marlin lever action a top ejection rifle, like the Puma, requiring either a side mount or scout mount?

OK, so we're down to 2, maybe 3 real choices;
      Ruger semi-auto .44
      Marlin lever action .44
      Ruger lever action .44 (possibly)

A local Town Marshall has a city-owned Ruger .44 semi-auto that the city wishes to sell, although he does not know if it's an old or new model. 

The auction rifles are getting up there - by the time you pay $30 for S&H and $15 for an FFL transfer it looks like you'll be around $450 or so.

Is it hard to get parts or service for older Rugers?

Also, the .44 ammo I currently have is 240gr SJSP semi-jacketed soft-point, with about 1/8" of lead showing at the tip.  Will this cause feed problems or anything?


   



 

[Rangr44]

I like a scout set-up as a "change-of-pace, which acts like a big peep - but with magnification (2x or so).  On a very short-barreled carbine (my Marlin is 16"), the gun handles more like a pistol than a rifle.
The Marlin is a side eject, and does take a conventional scope & mount - but the scout is a practical method for scoping top-ejectors, like a Model 92 (Pume, etc) or Win Mod 94.

[A local Town Marshall has a city-owned Ruger .44 semi-auto that the city wishes to sell, although he does not know if it's an old or new model.] - Check the mag - clip=new model $700 Deerfield  

The auction rifles are getting up there - by the time you pay $30 for S&H and $15 for an FFL transfer it looks like you'll be around $450 or so. - Not if you can get the $320 gun for $400-425 +/-  (a decent buy); but the clock is running out fast on that one

Is it hard to get parts or service for older Rugers ? - Yes - No factory service, but they're usually stone reliable

Also, the .44 ammo I currently have is 240gr SJSP semi-jacketed soft-point, with about 1/8" of lead showing at the tip.  Will this cause feed problems or anything? - That is the factory suggested  Rx for use in the Ruger .44 autos, new & old

[Ranger J]

My Ruger Deerfield is by far the most accurate .44 I have ever owned.  Only down side is that it takes a heavy load to cycle it  and you can't shoot cast bullets in it.  It is not a cheap gun to practice with but is a really great deer gun.  It is a shame Ruger no longer makes it.  There may be a few left over new ones around still.

RJ

[whitfang]

The Town Marshall's rifle turned out to be a .40 caliber Ruger... not a legal deer caliber for Indiana.   

Now I have to see how some of these auctions go... maybe I can pick up a Ruger or Marlin .44 at a reasonable price!
 
Thanks to all, for the advice. 

[GatCat]

Have you thought about the NEF .44 magnum? The ones built i the last couple of years have tighter bores then the earlier ones, and shoot real well. The earlier ones did best with oversize ( to match the bore ) bullets, as in cast.
Not too much $$, either open sights or scope it. And, if it is correct year, you can always send frame to NEF and have a new barrel fitted, as wants or needs dictate!
Mark.

[Rangr44]

The Kittery Trading Post, in Maine, has four Old Model .44 Carbines on the rack - and they willingly ship, via the phone.
Call, and ask for David or Scott, in the Gun Department.

http://www.ktp.com/

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NEF's, H&R's, & Handi's - whatever - are getting to be unobtainium, except for whatever's in the retail pipeline, since Remington/Cerebus announced they're closing the plant by year's end, and started laying off most of the workers.

The "plant" is supposedly moving to another Remington facility in the Carolinas, and there's still a few bodies left in Mass to answer phones, etc - but knowing intimately about corporate "Golden Parachutes", I'd be willing to bet that those left will be saying whatever the corporate "line" is, upon risk of losing their parachute.

[whitfang]

GatCat - good idea!  But I've got several Encores that could be used with an Encore .44 rifle barrel (cost about $225) for single shot hunting.  Thought I'd try something different and get a semi-auto or lever action.

Rangr44 - Hey, Thanks!  I called Kittery's tonight and asked about photos of the four Rugers.  They said possibly, if I call back during the day tomorrow.  Do you remember anything to recommend one over the others? 

Kittery's has a real nice website and building.  Maybe they'll expand and give Cabelas some competition!

[Rangr44]

I didn't look them over, just saw them on the rack at a glance (there's dozens of floor racks holding several hundred + long guns, plus many wall racks & hundreds of handguns in glass counters) - but neither Dave nor Scott would steer you wrong.

I wouldn't mess around waiting for a pic, or you'll diddle yourself out of one - they sell that many guns, that fast.

They actually had six Ruger .44's but two had deposits put on them, so I only told you about four being left - yesterday.
Who knows what will be left by tomorrow - don't forget, it's the "tourist" season in Maine, right now, and the store traffic is heavy, since it's in the middle of a town of "factory outlet" shopping.

KTP, which is a huge, Cabela's-type Maine outdoors store, is a good place to do business - fair prices, knowledgable employees (usually), and a modern/clean facility.

[whitfang]

Success!!!  Found a Ruger 44 carbine on GunBroker for $320.  It should be in the mail tomorrow.

It does not include scope base or rings - any recommendations on those?  Does it just take a Weaver-style base and any 1 inch rings?  Is this old style Ruger .44 semi-auto with tubular magazine referred to simply as the "Ruger 44 magnum carbine"?

Still looking for a 'bargain' Marlin or Ruger 96/44!  If I can find a deal, I'll buy a lever gun too!

[teddy12b]

Welcome to the collective group of hoosiers hunting with 44's.  I don't think you went wrong with your choice!  I picked up a puma last year and I've been very happy with it.  I'm curious to hear how your rifle will shoot!

[Rangr44]

Does it just take a Weaver-style base and any 1 inch rings?  - Yep, but the base(s) are two piece. one onthe barrel and one on the rear of the action.  Leave the forward two top action screws alone - they hold in the cartridge guide.

Is this old style Ruger .44 semi-auto with tubular magazine referred to simply as the "Ruger 44 magnum carbine"? - Actually, it's name is: "The Ruger .44 Auto Carbine".  The later, clip-fed model's were called : "The Ruger 99/44 Deerfield Carbine".

[Mannlicher]

This is my deer and hog killing machine for close cover.  Marlin 1894S, with a Leupold FX-II 2.5X Ultralite.

One big drawback with using the Ruger lever and semi auto rifles, is they do not work well with heavy bullets.  240 grain or less is what you are stuck with..........  Sad 
I have found that my .44 Mag rifle gives best results with heavy for caliber bullets.  The round I load uses the Speer 270 grain GDSP.  Accuracy is less than 1.5 inches at 100 yards, and velocity runs 1550+.

If the critter is within 125 yards, he is meat.   

[Rangr44]

[240 grain or less is what you are stuck with..........  Sad]

JMO, but I can find nothing "sad" about a load that's dropped every whitetail I ever fired at/with - since 1972, when I got my first Ruger .44 Auto.

[BBF]

Since you got it I hope it will work well for you. I have the Lever action type. If you reload I recommend the Hornady 240 gr XTP with a full load of H-110 or W-296.

  btw. my carbine doesn't like anything over 240 gr either with exception of the 265 gr. Hornady which only shoots fair.

As a lighter choice, the 200gr Nosler HP does very well in mine.