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Author Topic: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?  (Read 927 times)

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Offline FLS

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BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« on: June 18, 2008, 03:52:41 PM »
Specifically for the 300gr Original Semi-Spitzer, BARNES published data indicated using 54.0 grs of AA 1680 as a starting load.  I intend to shoot ONLY this bullet in a new H&R BC.  Anyone else using this particular bullet?  Possibly used the BARNES data?  I'm ready to purchase components to get started testing.  Any help would be appreciated.
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Offline vinpar092

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 10:00:15 AM »
I shoot this bullet, but have to ask, Are you shooting this bullet for longer range? I started shooting this bullet for that reason. I hunt a powerline in Mississippi and shots could be out to 200/300 yards. After last hunting season I found that for the price of the bullets and out to 200 yards the performance wasn't really needed. I shot an old declining buck at 30 yards and the bullet exploded. Hit him dead on the spine, mid back and could put 1 fist and a half in the wound. Definately bang/flop. So that got me thinking that most of my hunting is thick, less than a hundred why don't I just practice with cheaper bullets. I found that I could push a Hornady 300 grain Interlock real hard with 53.0 gr of IMR 4198 and get decent groups out to 200 yards with practice. So I just didn't think they were worth the extra expense. I just feel that the bullet wasn't that strong at close ranges. I decided this year I would possibly try the 250 gr Barnes Triple shock. Its a stronger bullet for the same money and I possibly can use it close and far without the meat damage.

Vince
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 12:23:28 PM »
I've taken Kodiak bucks out to 225 yards with the 300-grain Hornady, using 52 grains of IMR-4198.  Penetration was from brisket to ham, expansion textbook.  At shorter ranges it performed fine too.  BTW, the 300 Hornady is not an Interlock bullet.



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Offline vinpar092

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 02:52:24 PM »
I'm definately not going to argue about a bullet and the NOT may be true. I just happened, at the time I wrote the reply, to have Midway opened and pulled up the bullet which stated Interlock and the web site states that it may or may not be:

Most of our traditional Hunting Bullets are spire points with a secant ogive design for ballistic efficiency. Most also feature our exclusive InterLock™ (IL) design for enhanced terminal performance.

Most states that this bullet could be a spire point and it also states that Most feature the Interlock. We know that it is not a spire point and it really doesn't matter if it performs well.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 03:03:20 PM »
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 10:26:35 AM »
Who do y'all want to believe - the discount seller Midway whose website is well known for misprints - or the company that actually designed and makes this bullet?   ::)

Check the bullet charts in the Hornady manuals - go back 30 years if you want.  The 300HP does not have the "I" designating it as an Interlock bullet.   If you do not have a Hornady manual, feel free to cut a bullet open and look.    ;)

I had thought that readers would prefer accuracy in our posts.  I'm sorry if correcting your post offended you.


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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 10:55:47 AM »
I called Hornady, the 300gr is NOT an Interlock bullet just as Lone Star stated, but surprisingly the Hornady tech thought it was until he checked it!!  ;)

Tim

https://www.hornady.com/contact_us.php
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 11:45:17 AM »
Barnes lists a 250 gr and a 300 gr TSX bullet.  Would the 250 gr loaded hot be more accurate at long range?  Has anyone tried either of these?
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 03:52:55 PM »
Quote
...surprisingly the Hornady tech thought it was until he checked it!!

Actually this is no longer a surprise to me.  Years ago I could call a tech at Sierra or Hornady or Speer and get a real answer I had confidence in.  In recent years I get poor info, particularly from Sierra.  Now their "techs" are nothing more than non-employee shooters who answer questions apparently for a fee (from Sierra).  I suppose this lowers Sierra's costs, but it hardly keeps their level of technical expertise up to my expectations.   I found I knew as much as their techs did, often more....and I'm certainly no genius.  They are good for answering beginner's questions, but IMO they are not professional ballisticians.  On well, another feature of the "good old days" lost forever.   :(


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Offline vinpar092

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 05:38:49 PM »
Lonestar, I guess my humor is sometimes odd. Your bold not made me do a play on words. I don't really care if its an Interlock, but thanks for the infor. I certainly like that you have some close and far range experience with the bullet. I didn't care for the Barnes Original at those close ranges. It basically exploded. The fragments were everywhere. I'm going to try the Hornady at close ranges, if they do not perform/hold together better then I'm going to try the TSX. I'm wondering if the pointed 300 grain TSX that is rated for the 458 Win Mag would open sufficiently. Any comments on that?

Vince
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 05:42:58 PM »
I used to be anamored of long range hunting with the .45-70, and wanted a pointed .458" bullet badly.  But really, the ballistic advantage is kinda small for practical ranges, and 250-300 yards is a long way.  With laser range finders, trajectory goofs in the field are less likely and the existing 300-grain bullets are soft enough to expand at over 200 yards and penetrate plenty.  Too, the large flat meplat seems to be a contributor to the highly effective knock down ability of the cartridge.

A pointed bullet will increase the BC, but what would we be giving up if the bullet was too tough to expand?  We'd lose the 'slap' of the flat point, and the wound channel would be pretty small with that ice pick point.  If the TSX opened enough then okay, but I don't know if it would.

I agree that the 300 Hornady doesn't need the InterLock feature.  Back before any Hornady bullets had the InterLock they used the cannelure to limit expansion and to hold in the core.  The ones I used worked pretty well.  But Hornady saw a need to improve their bullet line, and I can't see where the InterLock feature hurts anything.  It probably helps some bullets.  But the old-school 300HP worked just as fine 30 years ago as it does today.



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Offline vinpar092

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 03:41:23 PM »
Lone Star, I agree. The pointed bullet appeals to me only on the powerline that I need a long shot. I too am concerned with the bullet opening and thought I'd call Barnes about it. Just haven't had time. I did think that if the petals would only peel back slightly, then the wound channel would be fair. You wouldn't get a good transfer of energy and I also need that. The property line is only 60 yards from the powerline and I need the deer down. I guess I'll contact Barnes next week and get this new project going. If not I'll continue practicing.

Vince
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: BARNES Load Data for 45-70?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 12:46:39 PM »
Since a fair number of you appear to have experience with the Barnes bullets, anyone loaded the 250gr? At 2.53 COL the last groove still shows slightly. Afraid if I go shorter it will be too far off the lands. Anyone loaded it?
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