Author Topic: which milsurp should i have  (Read 2385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
which milsurp should i have
« on: August 14, 2007, 09:36:35 PM »
Lets say I am looking at a rack of rifles Mosin Nagant, 03A3, Mauser, Lee Enfield, Swiss K31, Sprinfield 3040, which one should come home with me! Lets see all I want is the firearm to be accurate. All I have to spend is 180. What is the best bang for the buck!

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 01:08:35 AM »
chrsm:  for under 180 your first and second choices in that price range are the Lee Enfield and the Mosin, price dependent, then the K-31, the Mauser and the Springfield.  The Mosin and Enfields usually run around the same price, as do the K-31s and the Mausers.  Springfields, regardless of caliber, are expensive. 

The Mosins turn out to be very accurate but may need to be, ummmm, 'fiddled with' to get it there.  Most Enfields I have taken off a rack are accurate as they are but I find the Lee Enfields heavy compared to Mausers or Mosins.  K-31s are very accurate.

Each  one you have mentioned has more than enough power for North American game.

You just need to handle all of them until you find the one that feels best to you.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2007, 05:54:24 AM »
I would like to recommend, at least one of each, but since you are working with a budget I agree with Mikey.

Offline Aardvark

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 06:22:37 AM »
I don't agree totally as you can pick up some M-48 Yugo Mausers for around $90 or so and some of the Turk Mausers are under $100..And you can usually get a good Spanish .308 Mauser for under $125.
/^\__/^\
((*)   (*))
 ``(oo) ``
(V\/vv\/V)

Offline Illhunter

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 06:28:52 AM »
i would say the mosin then the k-31 would be my choices i have a mosin 91/30 my other wants are a swedishm96 but they are a little higher from what i have looked at you can get the mosins for less than a $100 most of the time at least where i live anyway just my .02 cents


Terry

Offline TribReady

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2007, 08:13:54 AM »
I'd lean towards a Yugo and a Turk Mauser.   Should be able to get both for around $180.
Then a Mosin, then Enfield, then k31

You have to take into consideration ammo availability and cost also.  Enfield and K-31 ammo is much tougher to come by and more $$ than 7.62x54 and 8mm
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2007, 09:04:41 AM »
Thinks, But what are my chances one will shoot without me forking out money, just to find out I get a 8" spread at 100yrds And how come the US stuff is so much$$$$$$$ Didnt they make millions.

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2007, 09:19:45 AM »
I reload so the price off ammo is not a issue. I have read a lot about the K31. All the threads lean me to the swiss. Can you still find one.

Offline Aardvark

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2007, 05:58:24 PM »
Remember that each military rifle was designed and the sights set up to shoot a particular bullet...Some guns like certain ammo and really don't do well with other stuff at all, so don't be too quick to judge the gun if it shoots big groups...Whichever gun you decide to settle on, research it and find out what round it was designed to shoot and chances are good you will be in the ballpark with decent groups,unless of course the barrel is just shot out, which is not likely with most guns that were not part of major battles...
/^\__/^\
((*)   (*))
 ``(oo) ``
(V\/vv\/V)

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2007, 09:38:23 PM »
Very good point ardvark. Do most mosins take 308 are 310. Can it shoot the 311 s. Does anyone have both a mosin and a swiss and what do you think.

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 12:00:52 PM »
The K-31 is an excellent gun, and very accurate, you are kinda limited as to what you can do with the gun to sporterize it, if that is in your plans.   It may be hard to find one in that price range, but if you can find a model 94 Swed in the 6.5x55, then you will have a sweet one.  They are excellent shooters, and the 6.5 will take any game animal on the North American continent.  

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 03:33:50 PM »
I do not intend to make any permanent disfigurement to the rifle.Can you still find a swed for a good price!

Offline Aardvark

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 05:26:11 PM »
Very good point ardvark. Do most mosins take 308 are 310. Can it shoot the 311 s. Does anyone have both a mosin and a swiss and what do you think.
I reload my Mosin M38 with .311".
/^\__/^\
((*)   (*))
 ``(oo) ``
(V\/vv\/V)

Offline Aardvark

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 05:28:56 PM »
I do not intend to make any permanent disfigurement to the rifle.Can you still find a swed for a good price!
I think on GB they go for about $275 up.
The M38 Swede is a 23.6" barrel and the M94 is 17.5".
/^\__/^\
((*)   (*))
 ``(oo) ``
(V\/vv\/V)

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 05:45:25 PM »
I have an assortment of military surplus rifles and in my opinion, the best rifle, and the best bargain, currently, to use unaltered, for all big game, is the k31. The workmanship for the money is unequaled.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline MGMorden

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2007, 06:28:44 AM »
Out of the ones you mentioned, it's hard to beat a Springfield or Mauser for "traditional" usefulness or appeal.  Unaltered they still feel more like a modern rifle (probably because most modern rifles are based on variations of those actions).

The Lee Enfields are cock-on-close, rimmed, have a huge protruding magazine, and a two piece stock.  The integrated peep sight on my No4 Mk1 certainly is neat, but it's a bit of a novelty rifle for me.  I know one guy who shoots a scoped/restocked sporterized SMLE, and it does fine as a hunting rifle (certainly nothing wrong with the cartridge's ballistics). Just wouldn't be first on my list. I think I paid $79 for my SMLE from Centerfire Systems.  It's the most beat-up looking Milsurp I own (and that's after spending 3 hours cleaning it up :)), but it still is in perfect working order mechanically :).

The Schmidt-Rubin K31 is also kind of a novelty (got mine from AIM back when they were $89).  Straight-pull bolt, unconventional (but very reliable) safety, top-eject.  I like mine, but again, it's a bit of a novelty. I will say that with iron sights this is probably the most accurate milsurp rifle I own. 

Mosin Nagant.  They're dirt cheap right now (have been for a while).  I paid $49 for my m38, and I certainly don't regret it. You almost owe it to yourself to buy one of these things :).  But, if it hadn't been so cheap, I wouldn't like it.  Overall, I just don't like the Mosin Nagant action.  The magazine well is single-stack and so protrudes way down, the cartridge is rimmed, the bolt is complicated and has a very difficult to use safety (similiar in design to the K31's but not nearly so elegantly implented), and the action is "clunky" (bolt handle is far forward and must pass through the rear receiver bridge).  The stock is also just not comfortable to hold.  Again, given their price, you should definitely get one, but if it's a "I can have only one" deal I certainly wouldn't take a MN as my only milsurp.

Springfield 3040 (I assume you mean the Krag-Jorgensen? - not sure) - I don't own a US Krag, but I do have a Norweigan Krag in 6.5x55.  Personally, I think these things are a very, very neat little action.  It might have sucked for military loading, but that side box is pretty nifty in my mind if you're not in a hurry.  Krags tend to be expensive in complete condition though, so I'd go for a Springfield 1903 (or A3) first before buying a Krag.

My order, from most desirable to least, if price was the same for all, would be: 1903, Mauser, Krag, K31, SMLE, Mosin Nagant.

But since price likely not the same on all, I say get the Mauser :).  Yugo M48's and M48A's are still reasonably priced (I think), and there might still be some cheap Turk's hanging around.  I've got an all matching M48A that I paid $69 for from Sarco, and a $59 Turk in very good condition (extremely smooth bolt on this one) from SOG.  If it's not a wife or something laying down the line then for that $180 you could almost certainly afford both a Mauser and a Mosin  . . . ;)

Offline chrsm

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 12:15:11 PM »
some good stuff MG. and thanks to the rest for some good feedback.

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2007, 03:49:41 PM »
Right now Aim Surplus and Samco are still offering the swiss k31's.  Another good choice is the yugo 24/47 8mm mauser these can still be found in excellent condition too.  I wouldn't sell the mosins short on accuracy too some of them shoot pretty good too. Plus you can get the 7,62x54r russian made barnaul soft point ammo too.  Sellier & Bellot(CZ) and Pri-Partizan(former yugoslavia) manufactures soft point ammo too for most military calibers too.

Samco still is offering some swede barreled actions but i'm not sure how good they are.  I think these were around $169 or so. The swede stocks with all the hardware is found at numrich gun parts I think these were around $52.  I know the swede mauser prices are going up on the good rifles with matching numbers(metal/wood) and the range plate.

Overall with whats being offered right now on the military surplus market i would buy up all that i can, like get one of everything.  The way the prices are headed we won't afford too much in the near future...   Just wait till the yugo sks's dryup then watch the prices on all the sks's go up too.

Offline 351 power

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 794
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 10:19:38 AM »
i have never understood why cock-on-close actions are criticized. i find i can push to close/cock a rifle easier than open/cock a rifle. any reasons i'm missing?
every day is a gift. use it well

colour is a symbol of where you are from and not of who you are

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2007, 10:31:35 AM »
The Enfield No4Mk2 is probably the best battle rifle ever made.  I love them.

You won't find an 03A3 or a Krag worth having for $180.00.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Saloon slug

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
  • Gender: Male
  • Eastern NC
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2007, 11:23:17 AM »
+1 to Swampman

The LE is an awesome Mil weapon. True they are heavy and no they don't look as streamlined as the others but mine( S  No4 Mk1* ) has never failed me and with good ammo shoots right along with the rest of them. I have taken her hunting in the past and she will be going out with me again this deer season.

After saying that I have been keeping an eye out for a 91/30.
 What can I say I love rimmed cartridges ;D
From the halls of Montezuma

Offline HotGuns

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2007, 03:29:49 PM »
Ive got a few Milsurps so I'll list the ones that I have experience with.

I have 3 Mosins, 1, 91/30 and 2 M-44's
2 Enfields, 1 Mark4 type 2 and 1 Mark 5 Jungle Carbine
2 Swiss K31's
2 Yugo Mausers
1 Turk Mauser
1 6.5 Swede Mauser
1 M1 Springfield Garand
1 1917 Springfield
1 Krag Jorgenson
I Chinese SKS
1 Yugo Sks

For accuracy, the K-31 beats every one hands down. They are still reasonable, and are fine actions.
In second place the is Swede 6.5x 55 ...which I believe to be one of the finest examples of craftsmanship in the Mauser family.
Third place goes to the 1917.
Fourth would be the Krag Jorgenson in 30-40 caliber.
Fifth is the Mk4M3 Enfield.

The rest are nothing to get exited about. Some are more accurate than others but none are in the same league as the first 4. but the M1 wins here, the peep sight being the best type of sight.

Offline glshop20

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 168
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 03:34:45 AM »
As many as you can afford.  They all have some history attached to them.  I feel that is the most fascinating part of these firearms.  My K-31 had a paper tag under the butt plate with the previous owners name and info.

Offline woodchukhntr

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (108)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 07:42:00 AM »
Right now, your $180 will still get you Yugo & Turk Mausers, Mosins and maybe  a #4 Mk1 Lee-Enfield.  The K31 is selling above your price limit, and the Springfields and Swedes are out of sight.

I have a 91/59 Mosin that shoots very well and it only cost me about $90 last fall.  That leaves plenty of $ for ammo out of $180.  It is not heavy, so toting it in the woods all day isn't bad.  I'd llike to take my Finnish 39 and my #4 Mk2 out deer hunting, but they are a little hefty.  Of course I also have a #4 Mk1 sporter that I bought for $80 a couple of years ago.

I suggest a M38 or M44 Mosin.  If you get a M44, take the bayonet off, but don't toss it out since a future buyer will probably want it.

Offline MGMorden

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2008, 05:00:30 AM »
Of course I also have a #4 Mk1 sporter that I bought for $80 a couple of years ago.

Hate to dredge up an older topic, but I have to say that I'm not sure why the old SMLE's took a back seat to Mausers when it comes to converting to sporter guns.  The .303 Brit is a more than capable round for almost all hunting one might do, and there's less work involved in converting one to sporting use - the bolt handle and safety need not be altered at all, and the barrels at 25" are a pretty reasonable length for a sporter weapon.  I picked up an old No1 MK III a while back with a cut down stock that already had an S&K mount and a scope for $115.  Found a used ATI stock set for it for another $15 and it's now a pretty interesting little gun.  I bought it after the last deer season went out, but my plan for it is to just keep it in the trunk of my car so that I can stop off in some of the public hunting woods after work for an hour or two during the week.  I'll still take it out and clean it every now and then but if it develops a bit of rust between cleanings I won't worry much since it was so cheap to begin with.

I've got an original condition (beat all to hell and back, but original condition ;)) No 4 Mk 1 as well that I've considered taking hog hunting this year. 

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
Re: which milsurp should i have
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2008, 11:11:03 AM »
In the past i have seen a lot of 303 britt's sporterized at gun shows.  Some of the work looked ok too with the orginal stocks.

I'd go with the swiss k31 first there not getting any cheaper.  Get your mosins next.  Then plan out what you want to get and go to gun shows.