Author Topic: Misfires?  (Read 1052 times)

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Offline GameHauler

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Misfires?
« on: September 14, 2008, 07:28:51 AM »
Hi all.
Just got home from doing some scouting and set a trail cam.
Since I was going out I took my Contender along to fireform
some 7-30's from 30-30 cases using the Cream of wheat method.
(Worked good)
Problem was I had about 20 misfires out of 50 rounds ???
They all did fire with a second try.
Whats going on here?
problem with the gun or a bad batch of primers?

The first 50 I fireformed (using bullets) fired just fine

HELP
Mike
Mike

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2008, 08:44:15 AM »
Mike,

If you have a hammer extension on your Contender, take it off. I've personally seen this effect the firing of cartridges in the Contender. Once the extension was removed, the mis-fires never occured.

Dave

Offline GameHauler

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 08:56:09 AM »
Interesting ???
I do have an extension on it
Kind of hard to believe it could affect it
But I'm not doubting you
Thanks
Mike

Offline SD Handgunner

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 09:08:25 AM »
#1 yes it could very well be the hammer extension. The hammer extension adds weight to the hammer, and doing so without increasing spring tension at the same time can resultsin the hammer hitting with less force.

#2 you may not have your cases set up with, ie headspacing on the false shoulder you created when necking the cases down from .30 caliber to 7mm. I set mine up so I had to snap the action shut to get it to lock up. This way I knew I didn't have any headspace issues and thus less chance of brass stretch in the wrong place.

#3 could be primers. With certain frames I have not been able to use certain primers to get reliable ignition. I have had troubles with CCI Primers in Contenders a few times over the years. When I switched to Winchester primers the problem went away.

Larry
T/C Handguns, one good shot for your moment of truth !

Offline GameHauler

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 09:17:59 AM »
#1, Makes since.

#2 False shoulder set so I have to snap it shut.

#3 CCI primers were used this time.
     
You guys are SOOO Smart

Thanks,
Mike
Mike

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 09:28:43 AM »
 :-\ Mike.....it's exceptionally difficult to stay humble when brilliance such as ours just burst out of your computer screen. It's a tough life that people like us lead.....but we try to keep it all in check.  :P

Dave. (aka....Mr. Humble)

Offline GameHauler

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2008, 09:40:05 AM »
 :D OK Mr Humble
I got the set screw out,
Now what? it doesn't want to budge.
Been Trying to tap it off with the handle of a screwdriver.
Could it be locktited and need to got the solder iron out ???



Update:
Little heat from soldering gun expanding the extension
One little tap and off she came ;D

Sure am going to miss it :'(
Mike

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 01:38:27 PM »
You may miss it at first....I did when I took off mine. But the more you shoot it, the more you will like shooting it without the spur.

MHO

Dave

Offline Catfish

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 02:44:30 PM »
Forget the head space as being a problem, the .30-30 case head spaces on the rim and not the shoulder. You might try softer primers, but taking the hammer spur off should work. If not check the depth of the crater in you fired cases for depth and make sure they are nice and round, you could have a broken fireing pin. If your barrel is not locking up all the way that will cause your problem as would a weak hammer spring.

Offline Ladobe

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2008, 01:42:27 AM »
#1 - Not only what SD says, but the hammer extension (like a weak spring) also slightly slows down what is already a very slow lock time in the TC's.   Gives the shooter more time to wander off target before the boom.

#2 - Can't agree Catfish.   While you did catch that this round is intended to headspace off the rim and not the shoulder (including while fireforming), headspacing can still be a cause of misfires if there is wear in the barrel pivot, worn or poorly fitted locking bolts, wear on the frames breech face where they lock up, etc that all affect headspacing.  If the case moves when struck by the firing pin because it is not headspaced correctly, a misfire is very possible.   

#3 - A worn (not just broken) firing pin on primers that are known to have harder cups is a common cause of misfires with TC's.   Another can be gunk buildup that prevents the smooth movement of the firing pin(s) within the frame, and as suggested a weak hammer spring that could have been accelerated by using the hammer extension.   

TC frames are all too often neglected by their owners.   Kind of like a car, the lawn mower, and that fruit cake Aunt Martha sent you for Christmas in 1972.   They take good care of them at first, then just expect it to last forever without that care when the newness wears off.   IMO TC frames should be completely stripped, cleaned and re lubed on a regular schedule.   It's a perfect opportunity to check parts for wear/breakage and make correction accordingly, besides assuring the frame will last a lifetime or two or three.   I dedicate my frames to which barrels are shot on them and so to what they are used for.   Easy for me to do because I currently have 20 frames.   Back when I shot IHMSA seriously, those frames were done every year.   The frames only used for low volume type hunting a couple of times a year or target shooting could go 2-3 years.   But the frames for very high volume hunting many times a year got done at least twice a year and sometimes three.   A little prevention goes a long ways toward reliability. 

Smart might be one way to put it Mike, but I think its more that there are some very experienced TC users on this board who have been at it long enough to have run the gamut on all of the ins and outs of TC's.   They're an opinionated bunch who don't always agree with each other, but many of them do know TC's.

Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline SD Handgunner

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2008, 04:24:19 AM »
On my current SST Super 14 7-30 Waters Contender Barrel the rim counterbore in the breach face of the barrel is cut deeper than the thickness of the rims on the brass I am using. If I were to rely on the rim of the cartridge in my barrel to headspace I would have excessive headspace since the counterbore was cut to deep in my barrel.

This is not a concern to me as I set up my dies so my brass headspaces off of the shoulder anyway.

Larry
T/C Handguns, one good shot for your moment of truth !

Offline hunterspistol

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 03:00:27 PM »
  After one of the guys wanted to strip and clean a Contender, he got the answer: "Why do you want to take it apart?"

   So, Okay I blogged it on a Yahoo 360-http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-0fwSza05bqjr9VeDaJpQBZrv1H.w;_ylt=ArUjGKro6.M9VEf8TKxOBqC0AOJ3
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Offline Keith L

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 03:36:42 PM »
No, he didn't get that.  He said don't tell me not to take it apart.  Then he gave us a load of attitude when he didn't get anyone to answer.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline hunterspistol

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 01:57:55 PM »
     True enough, he came off with lot of attitude. He just didn't want to admit that he couldn't make it to the safety bar under the hammer and back.  I waited quite a while to answer him.  Then there's the part where he didn't know what anything was called anyway. Free manuals from TC are worth the call.

  I apologize if it looks like I'm second-guessing more experienced shooters, it's not my intention. The guy just wanted a little more privacy and not get laughed at I think.  In no way did I mean to be offensive.
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
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Offline GameHauler

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 12:40:19 PM »
Interesting Today.
Went back out to check my trail cam so I took my 218 Bee with me.

First round misfired :'( Fired on the second try :)

I think it just missed its little spur buddy and had to tell me so :)

Me thinks Me will get the wash tub out from behind the wood shed
and give the Girl a GOOD scrubbing behind the ears and between the toes ;)

Mike
Mike

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Misfires?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2008, 03:34:45 AM »
Me thinks Me will get the wash tub out from behind the wood shed
and give the Girl a GOOD scrubbing behind the ears and between the toes ;)

Mike

Mike.....That's probably a good plan. Sometimes I find myself "over-analyzing" a problem, when all that really needs done it something as simple as a bronze brush and solvent. ;)

Dave