Hi There,
It has drifted off topic mainly thanks to the resident loony but I would like to adress these comments:-
Most but not all... how many guns from "before" come ready and able to shoot sub-inch groups? If they were that great why did we have to develop glass bedding, free floating, synthetic stocks, pillar bedding, etc? Why did gunsmiths have to learn to blue print, true, face and align actions? Face it, modern guns though in many ways uglier than older ones are designed from the ground up with tighter tolerances and better components than older types were in general. Modern guns are machined, cast, cut, rifled, etc by cnc machines that are infinitely more accurate than even the best craftsmen from years past.
First of all the bullets we have today are far better made than those of the 1960's and before. When Townsend Wheelan wrote his famous words bullts were the limiting factor in most accuray concerns. Ken Wtares also mentions this is several of his Pet Loads articles as readers on the publication wrote in pointing out what Wheelan had wrote some 3+ decades before
. Using modern bullets those older inaccurately made rifles, according to you as they didn't have CNC machinery
, will shoot just fine with modern bullets. Prhaps you can expalin Walter Gehmann's world record shooting at 300 meters prone back in the early 1930's. Shootign a protype Mauser rifle using a rear sigth of his own design he set a world record for score at 300 meters which stood for many decades.
The reason that Gun smiths have to learnt hese toolmaking skills is that the standard of production in a lot of factories leaves much to be desired even though they are using CNC machinery and the guns mith often is not. how do you expalin this?
CNC mean mainly repeatabilty, it does not get tired like a skilled operator
but the actual accuray depends on:-
1) the base machine, some are capable of very high accuracy but cost more as a result.
2) The opertating system used. Some cannot keep their tolereances below about 0.1mm (0.004") a skilled operator on a good Capstan lathe can hold this tolerance all day as proven over many years by firms like "Monotype Corporation" who made printing machines. yes I worked there when I first left scholl on the Heavy Capstans and a lot of their componants had 0.002" limits on them
.
3) the type and quality of tooling for the machines. I can remenber when carbide inserts were guarenteed to keep a size to 0.001" of that set when the tip was indexed as the inserts were lapped. Today that's classed as "qualified Tooling" and cost a heck a of a premium as the inserts moslty are just pressed and only claimed to hold 0.1mm when indexed so much for progress
.
4) the accuracy of the opertating system itself, some cannot repeat positioning below about 0.05mm (0.002") those than can go below this cost a premium which a lot fo firms cannot justify the cost of as sucha system costs far more, often five to six times, than that of a lesser system!
5) highly accurate repeatable machines have to use glass slides and not ball screw encoders as due to frictional heat the screw grows in length which puts it's readings out. Machines equipped so are more costly.
Folks have been brain washed to think that because the machine is controlled by a computer that it's infallable in making errors in sizes......................... wrong! Accuracy depends on the quality of such base things as the Ball screw by which the turrets of the machine movement are controlled and the accuracy of the encoder which reads the position of the ball screw and then by the skill of the programmer. A poor programmer can make a seeter and operators days a nightmare................... don't ask
.
Another problem that people don't realise of fail to see is that in a lot of workshops the Digital caliper now reigns supreme
and frankly they are not that good. A good hardened steel vernier would last 20+ years in a workshop enviroment given adequete care but this modern Digital calipers last about a year or two again progress. I see a lot of so called skilled machinists that cannot handle and read a micromeer properly as they have been brought up with the digital caliper which is not as accurate as a good micrometer. More versatile but not accurate. yes I actually have three Mitatoyo digital calipers one brand new but they don't replace my micrometers especially for turning, for boring I use telesopic guages and a mic or an internal micrometer
the digital caliper is useful for quick checks and measuring less critical stuff like case lengths and stock bars sizes.
Instead of castings the old bolt actions were made from forged parts, forging aligns the grain of the steel to best advantage for strength which is why spanners (wrenches) are drop forged and not cast.
As for bench rest heavy guns
.............. I cannot understand why they just don't bolt them down to a cioncrete base and have done with it. They are closer to artillery pieces than a rifle anyway!
yes it's got off topic but I would still take a Mannlicher Schoenauer over any bench gun any day of the week
