T/C Seneca

[beethoven]

Well, I bought a .45 Seneca for myself after buying a .36 Seneca for the kids. Very happy with both rifles so far. Kind of wondered when T/C made Senecas. The .45 has a 5 digit serial # and the .36 has a 4 digit #. Looked on T/C'S website but found no information. Anybody know more than I do? ( Someone almost has to).

[Ladobe]

Unfortunately all the factory manufacturing records were lost in the TC plant fire in March 1997, along with the tooling for some models (including the Seneca).   TC will not even speculate, so year of manufacture of the traditional TC muzzleloaders prior to the fire can only be speculated.   

On a ML site I run on we have tried to put together a list based on when members still had records of buying or "thought" they bought, when they showed up in catalogs/ads, etc.    Few entries were ever offered for the Seneca or Cherokee though.   Can tell you TC used serial number ranges that were based on model.   While not considered a reliable source for the start of manufacture, the Seneca first appeared in Gun Digest in 1974.   It would have been last made in 1996-7 due to the fire.

FWIW, some folks also gave data that was so obviously wrong it was not included.   Some even got mad when told they had to be dead wrong, like the gent who insisted his TC Hawken was made many years before TC was even started as a company in 1967 (first Hawkens were offered in 1970).

While I had a couple of TC Hawkens in the very early 70's, my oldest now is a mid 4-digit Renegade 54 that may have been made somewhere in the 1971-76 range and is still like new.   "Somewhere" because it is not certain when they were first offered with guesses as early as 1971 even though it did not show up in Gun Digest until 1976.  Was a discontinued model for a while and then made again, but it's speculated they just continued on close to where they left off on serial numbers.

So some of this is fact, some of it is only speculation put together by a bunch of long time users of these models.   Hope it helps some in answering your questions.

[longcaribiner]

When I started working in a sporting goods store in 1977, the Hawkens were king.  We sold only one or two Senecas for every 100 Hawkens.  As I recall the renegade was new.    I have a few old TC catelogues from the early 1980's that I'll check tonight.  I have an old TC Patriot Pistol which went out of production along time ago.   (TC has has a few things come and go, like the TCR rifle.  A single shot break open hammerless rifle very similar to the high end European stalking rifles.)     

[Winter Hawk]

Ladobe,

You have me scratching the brain cells here.  I first saw the Renegade in Fairbanks when it just came out.  That would have been after my divorce in December 1974.  I moved down to Ketchikan in the Fall of 1976.  I remember reading about and seeing the rifle, and drooling over it for a sensible hunting gun, without the brass which a friend's Hawken had.  I think it would have been the Spring of 1976 I saw it, and they were brand new on the market at that time.

Hope this helps a bit.  If someone else remembers better than me I won't be offended!

-Winter Hawk-

[Ladobe]

Winter Hawk -

You could very easily be spot on about the Renegade.   As I said, it first appeared in Gun Digest in 1976, which is not considered a reliable source for the start of manufacture but sure could also be spot on.   

Tying memories to specific things in life can certainly help folks date those memories.   But others have "remembered" the Renegade from as early as 1971 and there is currently no way to prove them wrong.     

Even so, your input adds one more to the list who remembers around 1976, and someday maybe that list will have enough entries where a majority in agreement on the first year can generally be accepted as the best speculation of the first year.   If it is 1976, then my Renegade is probably 1976 but could be 1977.   Also speculation as we do not know how many per year where made or what the starting serial number was.

Only model that is pretty much certain is the Hawken being first offered in Aug 1970, IF you believe that when TC released and celebrated its 25 year anniversary model of it in Aug 1995 it was exactly 25 years later.

Thanks for your input pard, and for scratching that itch...   


BTW, I guess I am the only clown out there who has kept receipts/complete records of all his firearms bought and sold over the years since I was old enough to think it important.   Doesn't help with my Renegade though as I bought it used 1/2004.   


 

[beethoven]

Thanks for all the input. Hawkens may be more popular, but I prefer the smaller , cleaner profile of the Seneca. Being of small stature has some bearing also. I built my first T/C Hawken in 1985, still over my Mom's fireplace, unfired. I also bought and reconditioned a Hawken .45 flinter a couple of years ago. It's too bad that T/C isn't more interested in it's past models and production.
                                                               Beethoven

[Ladobe]

It's too bad that T/C isn't more interested in it's past models and production.
                                                         

Can't blame them really.   Would cost them a lot to have tooling made to replace what was lost in the fire.    Add that many of their models didn't sell very well anyway, not in high enough numbers to justify retooling even right after the fire AND especially the fact that muzzleloading has moved away from the traditional models with the new generations of youngsters getting into it unfortunately.    Not enough of us old traditionalists left to justify making them again.   It's all about profit, I'm sure more so with S&W at the helm, so they have to produce what sells to the biggest potential market.   

They've lost my business completely - I'll never own anything but traditional MLer's or shoot anything but PRB's ahead of real powder.

 

[beethoven]

Ladobe, I didn't mean that T/C should make them again, I just think that it would be nice if they put some effort into the production history of their guns. And I agree that we traditional m/l guys are a dying breed. All prb , cast at home and paper cartridge muskets here. Guys at work think I'm nuts but who cares.

[Ladobe]

"I just think that it would be nice if they put some effort into the production history of their guns."

Kind of hard for them to do when all the production record files were destroyed in the fire, even if they wanted to.   And many of the long time employees from the pre fire era who might have a guess are retired, etc.