Author Topic: decisions on which rifle this week  (Read 2051 times)

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 12:06:20 AM »
Hi All,

     Ahhhh I just got back to this and believe me mjbgalt I feel your pain  :( I have a rifle that has been giving me fits with it's lack of consistancy but that's another matter. Now I noticed that your using Millet Rings. Well I have a set on an older BSA Monarch and to be honest they are not very good. ON Sunday I was trying the rifle out with some handloads, have not shot the rifle much as it's a fairly new acquisition to the collection  ;) but those darned millets are moving on the dovertails, rifle is chambered for 270 win. The BSA Monarch action is machined with dovetails and the front ring stayed put but the rear one was walking forwards and the front ring was slipping on the scope tube Scope is an older Nikko Sterling Platinum 4x40 and I thought it was playing up until I noticed the ring movement  ::). It's scarred the tubed where it moved and they are as tight as I can get them using a long series Allen Key  ???.

    I have taken the back ring off and apart and ground the side down so the clamp can tighten up some more and stoned off the mating halves of the rings to se if they will grip the tube better. This is all temporay until I can find some better rings to fit the BSA Dovetails then the Millets can go into a spares box.

    My advice would be check those rings very carefully and change them for something better as soon as possible  ;).

   Now barrels are funny things not all like to be floating in free air as the "experts" tell they should be  ::) I found out the hard way when bedding a P-H 1200 Super in 7.92mm. The rifle was produced during the take over and shut down of Parker-Hale to the inletting was not up to their normal standards and the bedding was spotty to say the least. I got it NIB and would have returned it to P-H if they were still operating but that was not an option as I got it several years after their closure the rifle shot groups of arounf 3" at 100 yards. So I bedded it and added too much compound and free floated the barrel. WTH I thought and took it the the range where it shot patterns, patterns of about 6-8" at 100 yards  :o so I added card shims under the barrel at the fore end and continued adding them until the groups shrank down to around MOA. Once I had it there I packed it off to a good gunsmith to bed with this pressure  :) which he did and a very neat job too. He also fitted the Leupold bases to the action properly as their contour did not match the action and he tested the rifle with factory ammo and being a 7.92mm (8x57mm) the choice was limited so we used Privi Partisen 196 grain SP and with that ammo it groups around MOA now. My handloads should (we hope) improve on that.

 Another thing I would check is the leade in your chamber as I have heard that the throating is done with a seperate reamer and this can be out of line with the bore. Seems your model can have this problem as the gunshop I use here in the UK had a two like this recently that were incapable of shooting groups under 3" at 60 meters. Both were returned to the importers and refunds obtained. Both were chambered for the .223 cartridge. There is argument between the father and son who run the shop about stocking any further Remingtons over this, the father says stuff them and the son wants to give them another chance  ???

As for powder switching yep that can make a huge difference  :) why I am not sure but I had this happen with some Hornady 150 grain RNSP bullets in my 308. At first I could not get decent accuracy and gave up with them but I had acquired three boxes of them so came again to try them with the sme results. Then I had the brainwave to try a different powder and groups halved in size now with a little tweaking the load should be a good hunting one. I wanted a lower velocity for woodland Roe and Muntjac stalking and these bullets seemed like they would fit the criteara well.

Good luck with your rilfe and I hope you find out what is causing the problems  ;)

Online Graybeard

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 01:12:53 AM »
Quote
well i had a vanguard that did this and all i had to do was switch powders and it suddely shot 1/2" type groups. maybe that's all this one needs.

-Matt

Maybe you'll luck up and it will be but I doubt it.

Remington seldom ever has a bad barrel on their rifles but it can happen of course. As a whole tho I trust Remington barrels to be better than any other brand for accuracy. They do have bedding issues at times but that should be fairly easy to detect. Try to run a business card under the barrel and see how far it will slide up and down the barrel without binding. It normally should move freely until you get back toward the action and again when it nears the pressure points at the front. If it binds elsewhere that needs to be fixed/relieved.

But the kinda groups you mention are most likely not rifle related but are a result of a problem with the attachment of the scope or the scope itself. I prefer to use either Weaver bases and Burris Signature Zee Rings or the Burris or Leupold Dual Dove Tail base and Burris Signature rings. Those combinations have worked well for me and I mostly use the latter only on .30 caliber and over guns. Any looseness in the mounting of a scope can cause horrendous groups as can a defective scope and all brands of scope can go bad.


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Offline mjbgalt

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 01:29:07 AM »
i thought that too but the rings and mounts are tight, i even removed them when i brought it home and did it over myself to make sure they were tight.

-Matt
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 03:36:17 AM »
mjbgalt,
     For whatever it's worth, I've owned a savage 12FV in 223 and a savage 12bvss in 223.  I've had to sell them both when $$ has gotten tight.  Both of those rifles shot better than I could.  I was getting around 1/2" with those guns and a better shooter could probably do much better.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy another and I plan on when $$ becomes available.  For whatever it's worth, I dno't think you could go wrong with a savage 12 series rifle in whatever caliber you want.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2008, 05:20:12 AM »
Matt,
Sorry if I insulted you with a basic class in rifle shooting.  If that one doesn't go it doesn't go.  I'd send it back to Remington with a target and let them prove to you that it will do 1".  Take it out when they send it back shoot a target and if it's 1" or less good if not send it back with the target.  I work in manufacturing and we have a 2% failure rate on the equipment.  There are many componets and some will have a failure rate.  It sounds like this one is one.
Sorry.

Offline mjbgalt

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2008, 01:22:18 PM »
you didn't insult me at all. i was not clear about how i was shooting or what i already knew.

i am glad we have someplace to ask these questions.

i have always enjoyed your posts, mcwood.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 10:46:43 PM »
Matt,
Sorry if I insulted you with a basic class in rifle shooting.  If that one doesn't go it doesn't go.  I'd send it back to Remington with a target and let them prove to you that it will do 1".  Take it out when they send it back shoot a target and if it's 1" or less good if not send it back with the target.  I work in manufacturing and we have a 2% failure rate on the equipment.  There are many componets and some will have a failure rate.  It sounds like this one is one.
Sorry.

You could send as many Remingtons back as you like they won't do anything about them not shooting MOA as their acceptance levels are not that tight but of course they won't tell you what they consider acceptable. A Buddy of mine sent his Model 7 back as it would not shoot into less than about 2 1/2 MOA and they returned it saying it met their acceptance standards. Of course he probably doesn't know how to shoot accuratly after all he only shoots, and even wins some, at 600 yards Hi Power and Bench rest  ::) their answer so insenced him that he vowed never to buy one again and traded the rifle and a BDL that didn't shoot very well either that he brought at the same time which had a stock that looked like a windy lake surface it was so wavy. Those are the last two Rems brought to my knowledge by him.

  Of course Remington is not alone in this as few makers guarentee their rifles to shoot MOA and many will not openly admit what their acceptance standards actually are. Of course one can understand this as thye have no control over what the customer puts through their rifles nor the control over other makes of ammunition or even the skill of the shooter and let's face it not everyone is actually capable of shooting MOA groups.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2008, 01:18:03 PM »
With any accuracy problem I think the factory unboxes them and maybe shoots them adds the form letter and sends it back.  You need to fire it a couple of times and call them on their lack of response and they will do something after the second return.  On the last gun my buddy sent back ( not saying who) we just ran a patch through the bore and sent an old target and a screw you letter.  Gun came back with a new tube and it was right a rain after.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2008, 02:55:10 PM »
Then again regardless of what others may say it could just be a bad one.
To say that a certain brand has never been bad or always has shoot good right out of the box doesn't mean that all of them will.
I can tell you of one Remington that didn't.
I don't recall which model it was something in one of the new varmint models in 22-250.
The man who bought it is a state record holder in several different rifle categories so that pretty much ends that argument.
Three different Scopes, all LOUPOLDS, two were prov-en scopes.
Eleven different factory loads and five different handloads and the best it would do was 3.3" out of the box.
Sent it back to Remington and guess what.
The barrel was done with the wrong twist.
Two months latter and it now does five under a quarter at 200 yds.
Doesn't mean that who ever had yours didn't mess things up, but also doesn't mean there can't be something wrong with the gun either.


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Offline mjbgalt

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2008, 07:39:09 AM »
ok, i got a great deal on a .243 ADL this week and did EXACTLY what i did with the .22-250 that caused problems.

the .243 punched one-hole groups at 50 yards. i did the same things, same procedure, etc. same trigger adjustment, same mounts, etc.

so once again, the guys who think it's me are more than a little bit stuck on themselves and/or their brand. i just got a bad one, and it happens all the time to every brand. drives me nuts, if something doesn't work you assume it's the person every time because YOUR brand of rifle/car/jacket/whatever NEVER makes a mistake.

all said, i like the .243 and will be keeping it and shipping the .22-250 out to someone who thinks they CAN make it shoot.

....i oughta send it to some of you outspoken members and then blame you when it doesn't shoot...

 ;) ;) ;) ;)

there is an accurate rifle with "Remington" stamped on it, in my house now.

-Matt
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Offline Brithunter

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2008, 09:49:16 PM »
Glad to hear you found a good replacement  ;D as I well know having a rifle that won't shoot is very frustrating  >:(

Quote
...i oughta send it to some of you outspoken members and then blame you when it doesn't shoot...
 

Ahhh your assuming that they would admit the truth  ::) and with certain members I am not sure they would know the truth if it jumped up and bit them  :(

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: decisions on which rifle this week
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2008, 11:39:23 PM »
Con grats. 
Hope you have good luck with it.