Shooting the Super 14 Contender 45-70.

[jeager106]

I put this in handgun hunting also.
I had no idea that thing would kick so hard and hurt so bad with Marlin class 400 grain loads.
Can I tame this thing somehow as I'm already sssstarting ttto stttutter and sssshake when I pick it up.
I admit that I cannot control this gun with hi end Marlin reloads.
How 'bout something with SR4759 and 300 grainers?

[BigBossMan]

I know the feeling....Don't laugh but the first time I shot mine, I split my thumbnail in half.  I promply purchased the Descelerator Grips.  Then I switched to 300 gr.  Now, I actually enjoy the abuse.

[Keith L]

I am not a 45 70 shooter, and may be wrong, but I have always been told a Contender is not to be used with more than trapdoor level loads.  Guys?

[chazgin]

I used to have a T/C 14" in 45/70, same problem as you. Got rid of it and got an SSK with brake, what a difference! JD's brake really work well and his loading sheet shows Marlin level loads, so safe. You will want to get 3 or 4 ring scope setup also. Your scope brand can be debated but mine wears a Leupold and it OK after 10 years of shooting

[Dezynco]

If you're a handloader, try loading some 405gr. cast lead slugs.  You can even load WAY down with UNIQUE for some fun plinking loads.  Surprisingly accurate too!  Work your way up from there, but I would stay away from the really hot loads, the short barrel doesn't make full use of the hot powder charges anyway.

Look at some of the tables in the back of Lyman's handloading book.  They were designed as a good starting points for Contender and Encore barrels.

[Dezynco]

I'm a big black powder buff.  Wouldn't it be a bucket-of-giggles to shoot a Contender or Encore pistol with real black powder 45-70's! LOL!

I know it would make a big mess, but if someone tries it, please post pictures!   

[BigBossMan]

Funny you should mention it because that is exactly what I am planning to do.  It will be as few weeks away but I am heading tht direction as fast as I can.  I will let you know. Black powder all the way.

[Hopalong7]

The "70" in 45-70 stands for 70 grains of black powder.  With 405 gr bullets, I can't get quite that much in mine, but it ain't fer lack o' tryin'.  You may be surprized how much power that generates.  Yep, its a hoot!!...or I might rather call it a "blast"!!!  The NEF guys have some real good info over on their forum 'bout shootin' black and soft lead bullets in a 45-70.  GOOD SHOOTIN',  Walt   

[Slowpoke Slim]

I repeatedly shoot real blackpowder loads in my 14" contender. It is an absolute rippin' blast. You just haven't really lived until you've done it. Mine has a brake on it (factory bbl), and the blast is unbelievable. I've loaded 350 gr cast from a 45-75 mold, 390 gr "big lube" bullets, 400 gr meisters, and 535 gr postells.

I shoot mine at a very busy public range in Phx, AZ and I can tell you that people stop what they're doing and stand there open-mouthed staring in disbelief when I do it. They run a couple of night shoots during the week, and my buddy and I are trying to work out the logistics of going and shooting it at night to catch the fireball on video. Shooting it during bright daylight, you don't get to see the fireball, but the "BOOM" and smoke are the things that make life worth living.

I have a very short digital video of it during daylight, but it doesnt transfer well to the computer screen, plus the sound is greatly diminished from my friends small (cheap) digital camera.

If I had any idea how to post it, I'd post it up for you to see.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Ok, I've posted pictures before, but not video. I have no idea if this will work, but here goes:


http://s490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/slowpokeslim/?action=view&current=Contendervideodaylight.flv

I hope it works??

[halfslow]

That video worked fine.  I'll bet it is a sight at night.
Black is getting hard to find.
I shoot lead bullets and Pyrodex in my .405 win Encore rifle.
A lot more fun than the smokeless loads.

[Dezynco]

I love it!  I love to shoot black powder in my 45-70's.  I know that you don't get the full velocity that the 45-70 is capable of in the short barrel, but I still bet it's fun!

I'm working up a load for my Rolling Block with 3Fg GoEx and 520 gr. Lyman 457125's.  I'm looking for the "One ragged hole, 5-shot group".  Getting close!

I have one of those Chinese replica 1897 Winchester 12 gague pumps that I load with 2Fg black powder and full brass cases.  When I let other folks shoot it, they always grin and say "Can I shoot it again?"  It's a real hoot!

[Dezynco]

BTW, if you're looking for Black Powder:

www.powderinc.com

They will sell in 5 pound lots.  I shoot Swiss and Goex Express for accuracy, regular Goex in my shotgun shells.

What we do is get together and order several pounds at a time and split the shipping and hazmat fees.

[jeager106]

I'm a black powder buff myself.
Have about 40 pounds hoarded in the out building.
The way out back building.
Shouldn't be much trouble to clean up a Contender after using black.
I also have the 23 inch conender 45-70 as well as my 1895 Marlin LTD II with 26" taper oct barrel.
Nice shooting rifle with an originl n.i.b. El Paso Steelite Weaver 4X on her.
I'm taming the Super 14.
Today I picked a moderate load using 30 grains of SR4759; the books idicate about 1600 f.p.s.
That may be enough, shooting was not painful at all.
Might work up a little as I go.
Have to try 4198 and Re7 and 3031 also.
I shot the 300 grain Sierra into water jugs at 25 and exploded all of them but the last one.
Only found little pieces of lead and copper.
Made one heck of a water mist gyser too!

[rickyp]

the 45-70 didn't always have 70 grs of black powder in it. one of the reasons you are having trouble getting 70 grs in your case is they use to use a balloon head case just like the 45 Long colt. it want uncommon for the 45-70 to be loaded with 60 grs of powder.

For the Contender you need to stay down to the trap door level or you will stretch your frame this is coming from T/C if you have an encore  officially you should stay Whit the trap door loads but unofficially you can go to the 1895 loads. I was told in no uncertain terms to use modern loads (Marlin loads) in eather the contender or encore.

If you want a light load try some 150 gr. Collar button bullets are cute little bullets and about $9 for 100 they are cheep.

http://www.westernbullet.com/cbip/cbip.html

I have also loaded some 45 caliber black powder sabots with 40 caliber jacketed bullets  and it worked OK but do not do this in a barrel with a muzzle break. the muzzle break will catch the sabot and obstruct the bore.

I am using 405 gr cast bullets  with a mid 1895 load level. it is a hand full but not overly bad it helps to have a good set of grips

[halfslow]

Rickyp, I agree with you about the 45-70 in the contender.  I remember reading an article by someone associated with SSK that it was due to the actual force on the breech face related to the area of the case head.  And the 45-70 is a large one.

But, I respectfully don't agree with whomever told you that the Encore was rated the same.  TC makes the Encore in some pretty hot cartridges with big heads.

I personally bought a 500 S&W magnum for loading to BP and trapdoor pressures because I wanted a big honkin bullet with moderate recoil. (And they don't make a 50-70 barrel).
I like the safety factor in the Encore, and who knows, I may want to fire a factory load at triple trapdoor pressure someday.

The nice thing about BP is that in modern guns, you have a good safety margin, pressurewise.

Plus, all that smoke is fun.

[Mike Britton]

My uncle had a .444 Marlin super contender. It was brutal, but wicked accurate, and in his hands accounted for more than one white tail. Being left handed, it was a bear for me to shoot. It would darn near screw itself out of your hands.

[rickyp]

the thing about the 45-70 in the encore is T/c official lawyer answer but I was told unofficial.

[Swampman]

I had a 12" SSK that was Magn-a-ported.  With Trapdoor loads it was no problem.

[Keith L]

Lawer answer or not, no one representing this forum recommends exceeding manufacturer's suggested loads, or the recommended maximum loads listed in loading manuals by component makers for the type of gun being used.  To exceed these loads is asking for a failure that could result in injury or death. 

[rickyp]

now that is a Lawer answer