Now what?? - Sighting In Model 700 Problems

[jvs]

Not if you're dressed like that I won't.

[Swampman]

There's nothing wrong with the rifle.  It's shooting fine.

You can't beat Core-Lokts on soft skinned game.

[Graybeard]

It's too heavy, and Noslers can tend to be a little erratic in some calibers and twists.  Almost like trying to get Core-Lokts to shoot tight.  Most of the time, it ain't gonna happen.  While I don't exactly know what weight bullet should shoot best in a 7mm because I don't have one, I do know that 165 gr was basically invented for the 30 caliber family.  It might be splitting hairs but 7mm is not a 30 caliber and should shoot a slightly lighter bullet more accurately.

Don't get me wrong, I like Core-Lokts.  I use them all of the time for Whitetail.  Noslers have a place too, but those types are not known in my parts to be the most accurate, bullet performance overides the accuracy problem in my book.  Noslers can blow the same size hole at just about the same accuracy as Core-Lokts, but pinpoint accuracy is the price you pay for bullet performance in most cases.  It is tough to get groups under 2" at 100 yds with Core-Lokts.   It can happen, but it isn't likely. 

No doubt if you hit something with a Nosler Partition or Core-Lokt, it's going down with wounds the size of a softball.  Just don't expect to thread the needle.

One other thing.  I just re-read his first post and I see that he has this rifle for about 20 yrs.  While the age may not be a problem, the amount of rounds through this barrel may be.  If he is getting Blow-By, it certainly could affect accuracy as he explains it regardless of what scope he has on.  Magnum rifles are noted for this problem at around 500 to 700 rounds.  Sometimes more, sometimes less.  Depending on how much powder you use if you reload or if you consistently use factory rounds.

Your experience certainly does NOT mirror my own. I find Core-Lokts to shoot as well as any and have NEVER seen a problem with Nosler bullets I assume you are referring to the PT as the BT has the well deserved reputation of being one of the most accurate bullets made PERIOD. I've never had a rifle that failed to shoot both Core-lokt and PTs as accurately as any other brand bullet tried in them. In fact often one or the other is the most accurate in my guns.

Where in the world did you come up with the idea of magnums wearing out in 500-700 rounds? Perhaps if they've not been cleaned in that many rounds they will need a good cleaning but unless someone sat down and fired that many thru them in one shooting session as fast as they could I can't imagine that few rounds having much of an effect on the barrel life even of the grossly over bore magnums.

[AtlLaw]

To bad, we talkin' about you like a dog!   

[jvs]

I was refering to Nosler Partitions, not Boattails.  Any boattail will shoot accurately but they are not known as hunting bullets around here.   Hornady Spire Points have the reputation of a good, accurate hunting bullet.  About 20 yrs ago Noslers were the rage but have since fallen off in popularity.

From my experience Core-Lokts are not as accurate as Hornady Spire Points or regular PSP's but Core-Lokts will knock the crap out of big game animals.  I have never been able to get Core-Lokts under 1" groups in any rifle I shot, which is ok since the kill zone on a deer is about 16" and a bullseye on a target is usually 4".  Besides that, generally speaking, Factory Specs on new rifles  are 2 1/2" out of the box.  If you get better than that consistantly with CoreLokts .....Congradulations !   


And Magnums do erode quicker simply because of the extra burn associated with more powder not because of lack of cleaning.  Maybe you never heard of it, but it actually does happen.   And one of the first symptoms of erosion where the bullet leaves the brass is when the group starts opening up.  Erosion allows gas to escape around the sides of the bullet.  If you don't believe it, call Remington and ask how many 6.5 Magnum or 7mm mag barrels they ever replaced in rifles that had in excess of 500 rounds through them.  If Remington would want to admit it, there would be plenty.

I did stop in the other forum, not all disagree.  But I would put Core-Lokts up against Spire Points any day of the week in both accuracy and effectivness.

[Graybeard]

ALL rounds erode barrels when fired. It's a matter of degree. The more powder pushed down a given bore diameter the faster the erosion. The faster you fire and the hotter you let the barrel get the faster the erosion. But with modern steels nothing commercially available today is gonna do significant damage in the first 500 rounds. Will there be erosion? You betcha and if you took a bore scope and looked at the throat area of a super duper magnum party pooper and a standard .308 case round of same bore diameter you'd notice additional wear in the magnum. BUT it ain't gonna be significant at 500 rounds. Accuracy will not yet suffer and blow by will not yet occur. That's an old wive's tail or myth perpetuated by magazine writers who can but parrot what they heard from someone long ago.

The source of that myth is basically the .220 Swift in days of old and the .264 Winchester Magnum. Barrel steels then were not what they are now and even then the myth had but little real world truthfulness to it tho more then than now.

Core-loct bullets at least many of them are in fact SPIRE Point. That's a generic designation for a bullet with a lead tip and reasonably sharp nose contour. It's not a brand name and has nothing to do with base shape. In fact most all boat tail bullets are also spire point bullets but not all spire point bullets are boat tails. Not all Core-locts are either by many are.  Core-loct PSP or Pointed Soft Point bullets are in face Spire points.

I'm not arguing that you've had some problems in the past getting specific bullets to shoot in specific guns. I have also. But what I am trying to say is that it is not was not a short coming of the bullets in either case mine or yours. We simply did not find the right load for that bullet in that barrel. Maybe there as was not one even for that particular fire arm with that bullet but it wasn't the bullet's fault. It was made with sufficient quality control and was ballistically capable of good accuracy even if you or me failed to achieve it.

I'm not trying to get on your case about this really I'm not even if it appears to you I am. What I am trying to do is to correct what I see as a misconception about particular bullets based on limited experience with them that proved less than your expectations for them. That does not in and of itself correlate to a problem with the accuracy potential of the bullets in question. That very same might even apply to Barnes bullets which for the life of me I can't make shoot but others claim they can.

[jvs]

I don't think you are getting on my case about this, we just see things a little differently.  My experience is a little different than yours is.  My experience is CL's aren't near as accurate as many other loads available, either factory or hand loads.  All I'm saying is for me CL's isnt a load that you can thread a needle with the most accuracy.  I know if I am going to a place with alot of trees and I may have to shoot between them with what appears to be a 4" shooting alley, I need Spire Points or some such load, and not the CL's.   Mostly because the optics may  be deceiving.  I don't need to bounce one down the alley.

And as far as erosion goes, I said it happens to a noticable degree between 500 and 700 rounds in Magnums.....sometimes more, sometimes less.  I never said under 500.  (but maybe sometimes)

I think we can both agree that erosion really starts with the first shot and continuously gets worse with every shot no matter if you clean the bore or not or if it is a Magnum or not.  Even if you clean it, all it does is pull or push tiny metal flakes out with the cleaning pad....slowly but surely.   I will admit that shooting a hot barrel can speed things up, so I am with you on that one, but basically it is Physics and Metallurgy at work with every trigger squeeze and it is NOT an Old Wives tale.  Blow-by is a fact in some Magnum barrels and one of the first noticable symptoms is the group opens up, and you think after about 20 or 25 yrs or so "geez, this thing never shot like this before, maybe I need a new scope".

[AtlLaw]

Core-loct PSP or Pointed Soft Point bullets are in fact Spire points.

This is a very noticeable fact in the Remington 35 cal., 200 gr. PSPCL!  You'ld almost think Hornady made them!