im an conservative

[slim rem 7]

  but ,while im for most everything that preserves individual rights ,,i have one grain that just wont go thru my craw..capitalism has allowed usery ..interest ,compound interest and other forms to
 continually seperate the haves from the have nots..what we pay in interest on say an 15 -30 yr loan is in my opinion criminal... to me its so obvious that nothing establishment can say will make it right ..
  its haves robbing the have nots with an loving smile on thier face.. usery is the monster that ,,although it won t be blamed,, will eventually separate the haves from the have nots to the point that it could be an disaster of the scale of what happened to the french.. when all the royalty was beheaded..
 can t happen .. we ll see,, if the real money people with their money in stocks an such doesn t realize the degree to which they are taking advantage of the poor and ignorant ,,it will give the liberal the final tool to drive nails in individual freedoms coffin..why because they will see whats happening and spearhead
 the movement.. of course the individual freedoms will be lost in the name of the people..and absolute power will reighn..so the have nots loose anyway but there may be some satisfaction in seeing this criminal practice abolished.. only an simply spelled out amount required to pay for using money, should be allowed..
  if you read this don t be dumb enough to borrow from them .. i did as an young man and learned my lesson,, when i saw what i really paid for my house and land..
   its enough to make me find some of the benefactors of this practice and poach thier land any time i can.. 

[jimster]

There are some responsibilities that will fall on to people who want money they don't have.  I would recommend to any young people out there, don't spend what you don't have,  never charge anything, use cash, if you don't have it, don't buy it.  For a first house, yes you will borrow money and pay interest, but use your head, get a down payment together no matter how long it takes, and don't get a 30 year loan...and even then, make as many double payments as you can during the year knocking off the principle.  Live modestly, know where every penny goes, save as much as you can no matter how little you think it is.  If young people have this kind of focus they will be doing well after the first house is payed off.   Not all people can have the total "American dream" all at once with no effort when they are young, you have to scrimp and save and be careful, enjoy what you have over what you can get with credit.  The later years will pay off big time if your careful when your younger.
You mention the poor and ignorant.  Yes...I can go to a poor part of town and see poor people buying two packs of smokes and 7 lotto tickets every day, just think if they bought only one pack of smokes per week and put the rest away, what that would add up to.  I didn't spend that much money per day with a decent job paying 70k per year and bennies.  Cheap?  Nope...just got to be responsible for my own money, savings, and debt.  People want money they don't have, and sign things to get it...I can't help that, I'm not there to tell them the interest is too high, or it's not fixed...or hey, you don't have a down payment your going to pay through the nose.  Then...they want a new car too....payments again, just can't drive something older I can pay for...got to have a new car too, with no money.  The reason I'm sitting better now is because of the waiting and sacrificing I did before I made decent money, and after.  I stayed home a lot, drove old cars that were payed for, and never had any debt except the house and utllities, and payed off my house as fast as I could.  Then things got better after that.  When I sold my first house it was payed for and remodeled...took that money and put it down on a slightly better house, and payed that off as fast as I could.  On my 4th house now...that's IT for me.  Unless I move to another State.

Yes, if you want money you don't have,  you'll pay interest on it....so you best find a way to make that as painless as possible, it's not up to the government to make things better for you so you can have whatever you want ahead of time. 
The have and the have nots....well, some of the have nots choose that style themselves and the politicians use politics of envy.  America never promised anyone they could get money they did not have, and America never promised all people could have a house at 20 years old either with no down payment and not enough income to make a payment.  That's a personal choice there.

Just my opinion.

Jim





 

[Swampman]

I shop carefully for low interest loans.  It's sometimes cheaper to use other people's money, and save your own.

[jimster]

I can agree with that Swampman, I think the key is "shop carefully".   

[Ruskin]

The high standard of living we enjoy is because of capitalism.  I buy stocks because I am free to do so.  I buy because I think a stock will grow and provide me a retirement.  If I don't invest and reach a time when I cannot work without having built a nest egg then I become dependant upon others to take care of me.  I don't want that.

Capitalism is hard to live with because it requires me take charge and not become a ward of the STATE.

Interest is paid to rent money from the lender.  You would not allow someone to use your house without charging rent would you?

[Swampman]

After I buy food and pay my bills, I have no money left to invest in anything.  If I'm lucky, I'll get to work until I die.

[Ruskin]

I did not promise you a rose garden.

[PaulS]

I am a fiscal conservative. I spend my money carefully and I expect the government to do the same.
I am a moral liberal (also known as a government interference conservative). I believe that folks ought to be allowed to do what they want as long as it doesn't intrude on the rights and privilages of others or hurt anyone. I believe that people ougt to take responsibility for their own lives.
I am an "anti-federalist". I believe the central government of America has proven that no body of politicians can be trusted to uphold the rights of the governed over their own selfish interests. I also believe that this extends to the state level as well.
I believe that the constitution is as valid today as it was when it was first written, and that it should be enforced and protected.

[slim rem 7]

i dont want the government to do anything id like to see the current system of selling money exposed to those not so well educated..
no other product or item for sale makes close to the profit the current
 type loans allow. who gets this profdit the stock holders.. primaryly the well off. yes i think the less well off need a little protection from thier own lack of knowledge of how this system works..
  some one said its the individuals job to be up on these things ..
 you are right but the simple fact is they are not.. so the well off profit
 from the ignorence of the poor.. this is a formula that could explode in the well off stock holders face ,some day .. all it will take is an
 strong carismatic speaker with an agenda of turning the poor into  active enemies of the well off and the end result might very well end our free system.. the strong speaker would of course have an agenda much different than the poor suspect.. a good example was stalin..he used lenins hard work for a cause that while flawed was
 on the surface to benefit the everyday worker..stalin saw the truth about it tho and there will always be an leader like him ..ready to push his agenda once the people have in the process of ending the rich dominance ,,lost thier individual freedom... and thier right to own arms..i don t see this countries equeal anywhere in history.. but the present form of interest taken on loans is a flaw that needs fixing..
  outlawing this type of enormous profit taking will i believe reduce the ever widening gap between the haves and the have nots..something better do that soon im afraid,,for all our sakes..

[Swampman]

"so the well off profit from the ignorence of the poor...."

Just as it always has been, and always will be.

[alsatian]

I'm not sure where you are coming from.  Your position seems very excentric.

If you don't borrow money to buy a house, you must rent property while accumulating cash to buy a house for cash.   But in this instance, the rent is just paying the mortgage and a profit to the landlord.  I don't see how renting while accumulating cash to buy without a mortgage makes economic sense or solves the problem.  What is your recommendation, live in a tent, live with your parents, build your own house?

With respect to capitalism, the objective of a capitalistic employer is to exploit their employees.  Let me define "exploit."  The employer definitely plans to deploy the efforts of the employee to generate wealth and return only a portion of that wealth to the employee.  Most particularly, the portion of the wealth returned to the employee is typically determined by an estimated value of the employee's labor in the labor market, totally decoupled from the wealth they actually generate (with the exception that the wealth generated is at least enough to pay their wages, benefits, and other overhead costs associated with having them on the business premises).  The capitalist business is a wealth creation machine run for the benefits of the business owner or the stock holders.  It isn't constrained to be fair or equitable, in the sense that the employees wages are somehow fairly linked to the wealth they generate.  This may make capitalism appear immoral, I suppose.   I don't know according to what criteria, however, this judgment of immorality can be asserted.  From my perspective, if you don't like the arrangements, you are free to go out and start your own business and pocket all the wealth you generate yourself and to hire your own employees and exploit them or share the wealth with the equitably, as you see fit.

I'm not sure what to say.  I'm not saying you are wrong or that you are an idiot.  I'm just saying the things you describe do not comport with our present system or historically with our nation's economic system throughout its history.  It is possible that in some specific parts of our country "usury" was prohibited for a limited period of time, but I don't think it has ever been a thoroughgoing prohibition for an extended period of time.

I'm not sitting agast at a criticism of Capitalism as if you were the devil incarnated.  I am familiar with other economic systems which have good and bad properties -- just as Capitalism has good and bad properties -- including feudalism and socialism.  But within the Capitalist system we are where we are.  Capitalism has always been subject to pretty radical cyclical variations.  Excesses lead to retreats lead to other excesses and subsequent retreats.

[Singleshotsam]

After I buy food and pay my bills, I have no money left to invest in anything.  If I'm lucky, I'll get to work until I die.

I'm curious... You have no money to invest in anything and you'll get to work until you die... Yet you just bought 2 new handi's?  Why did you not invest that $200-300? 

[Swampman]

Into a crashing stock market?  I don't think so.

[Singleshotsam]

Into cattle, gold, put it in a jar and bury it? 

Were you depending on social security for your retirement?  Or just poor planning on your part?

[slim rem 7]

 im not too sure about you either.. but thats not the point..
  the point is while ill fight to preserve our freedom and system ..
 somethings are not fair in our country.. i don t think captalism is wrong and believe it to be the best system available .. my issue is the cost lenders are allowed to charge.. cost in interest for money loaned is in my opinion criminal..
 it alone provides enough to pit the haves against the have nots ..
 simply said i believe people have to pay way too much for the money they borrow.. its not capitalism ,its robbery of an kind .. this in my opinion.the first thing some do is attack the messenger if he brings an message they might not like or aggree with..that is a  right you have on this forum and in this country.my opinion is our money system or whats been up to now,is just that an system.. not part of this countries democracy.. a regulation of interest taking is probably one of the few regulations id support..
 i believe it to be one way we can stop giving the socialist an tool to
 promote discontent with.. in other words the haves need be a little less selfish..