Author Topic: 6.5 x 55 Swede Loads Requested (Read 4596 times)

Minnesota1 · « **on:** February 10, 2009, 07:19:22 AM »

I just got a new Tikka T3 Lite in 6.5 x 55. The groups suck from factory ammo then I was told that the U.S. Factory ammo is loaded down and made with 30-06 as a parent case and not a genuine 6.5x55 Swede case. I've heard our reloading manuals are loaded down as well because they are afraid of old guns using loads that maximize the Swede's performance.

Does anyone have any input and load data on this? I would really appreciate it because I hear this is a great shooting rifle and especially because of it being a Tikka.

Thanks,

Bob

cebpa · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:23:50 PM »

I have a Tikka T3 Hunter in 6.5x55 and it is a very accurate rifle. I have only shot 1 box of factory loads and they were Winchester 140 gr softpoints. These shoot just over 1 inch at 100yards for three shots. My reloads do much better out of my T3. I Load 44 gr of IMR 4350 behind a 140 Hornady IL, CCI200 Primer, and Winchester brass and my groups are right at .439 in for three shots and always in a perfect clover leaf. This rifle will go just over a 1/2 inch with a Hornady 160gr round nose and the same powder charge. I have also shot 120 Sierra, 140 Sierras, 120 speer, 140 Speer, 120 Noslar BT, 129 HornadyIL, 129 Hornady SST, 140 Hornady AMax, & 120 Remington CL and they all shoot very well except the 120 Remington CL. My rifle just does not like them very well. My loads are above max in the manuals but perfectly safe in my rifle so please do not start with these loads. Also if this rifle will not shoot check the scope and mounts and make sure everything is tight. If you are using the Tikka scope rings do yourself a favor and through them in the garbage! I tried them at first and they just did not hold up. I replaced them with Talley 1 piece rings/mounts and I have never had a problem with them, they are a great product. Tikka's are guaranteed to shoot under 1 inch at 100yards so I doubt that the rife is the problem. You have a great rifle and caliber! Enjoy it!
Clarence <>><

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:44:57 PM »

Try Sellier and Bellot 131 gn soft points or 140 gn fmj. They are made to original specs and group 3 to a hole from my old M38.

You are correct about American ammo companies loading down the European calibers - they say liability. I say they just want to hype American calibers. Use European ammo in European calibers - much better performance.

You are also correct in that American ammo makers have standardized the case head dimentions of the 6.5 Swede, 7mm and 8mm Mauser rounds to the case head size of the 30-06 family and offsprungs but I don't feel that makes any difference in accuracy - sure does make it easier to reload though. jmtcw.

hankster76 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:40:34 PM »

Where did you find that piece of junk!! The Tikka T3 is absolute garbage and will never shoot the 6.5x55 round worth a darn...
Because I am a nice guy I will offer to buy it off of you and eliminate your frustrations!!

Seriously I have been looking for that rifle for a while. I have it in 243 and love it. I would like to give my 243 a 6.5 big brother! Oh well the search continues.

I do have a 6.5x55 in an encore and it will shoot 140grn sierras over 44 gr of RL19 with CCI 200 primers into a tiny 1/4" cloverleaf all day long. I had good luck with 120grn sierras as well. Hornady SSt were terrible.

I also changed the rings on my 243 T3 to a set of warnes. It shoots little clovers as well. I didn't use the factory rings very long.

Good luck with the 6.5x55 if it don't work out or find another on don't hesitate to drop me a line.

buckfever 1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:17:13 PM »

I have had great groups and some very dead deer, one Mule Deer at 245 LBS., with a Barnes TSX 120grn. I use RL-19 for the 120grn., and Rl-22 with a 140 grn Nosler Partition. The 120 is flatter and seems to put em down so I use it for deer. The 140 grn. are for large Canadian Deer or Elk. This caliber is very underated and will really penetrate. I have never had anything but a pass thru. I have 3, Tikka T-3's all shooters. The 6.5x55 is bay and far the best. Enjoy! Buckfever

usherj · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2009, 03:04:30 PM »

I also have the Hunter in that caliber. I can't agree more with the previous poster, and most T3 owners - ditch the factory rings. I like the Talley lightweights also. As far as loads go, I've had great results with 46.2g of RL22 behind 140g partitions (around .75") and 140g match kings (<.4") with CCI BR-2 or Fed 210M primers. The velocity for the partitions is close to the book value of 2700 fps, around 2600 for the MKs. This caliber is quite easy to reload - enjoy!

SteveC99 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2009, 05:57:20 PM »

I load for four 6.5x55 rifles In US cases there was some variation in size of the case head and I had about half of a couple of lots of Winchester brass that were too small to fit the proper shell holder. I haven't seen that for a while. I have had the best overall luck with PMC, Norma, and Lapua brass.

None of those I load for, a Ruger 77 MK II, two Winchester 70's with PF, and one Winchester 70 CRF, will shoot factory loads at all. This is with the exception of the PMC Red and White box PMC. This is over 3.00 oal. Most current factory ammo is for the shorter throated SAAMI standard where the oal seems to be around 2.85". All my rifles like about 3.05 and are so throated as they came from the factory.

I mostly shoot 140's because my rifles like them and they will go almost as fast as lighter bullets. I prefer RL-22. Depending on the lot I get 2,800 over the chronograph with 46-48 grs. I've got some 130 Siroccos and Accubonds loaded with a bit more RL-22. These chronograph 2,975 with 50.0 grs RL-22.

sjf · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:14:40 PM »

IO just picked up a new tikka T3 lite in 6.5x55.

I tried 14 loads, 3 shot groups, to get an idea of what it liked, only 2 loads shot poorly, 12 loads went into 1.25" or less, 5 loads went less than .75", 3 loads were right at .5".

My rifle really liked the 125 partition, 120 ballistic tip and the 140 A-Max.

It also liked Norma MRP (RL22) work up to 50.5 gr with the 120's, 49.0 gr with the 125 (.42" 3 shot group ) and 47.0 with the 140. Also seemed to like CCI BR2 with this powder

It also did well with Varget and the 120 Ballistic tip, work up to 40 grs.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:53:15 PM »

Quote from: sjf on February 23, 2009, 02:14:40 PM

It also liked Norma MRP (RL22)

Is RL22 the old MRP!?

one eye joe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:55:36 PM »

Try either RL22 or IMR4350. Both have worked well for my CZ with bullets from 120-140 grains. Check online reloading information as most books keep pressures down for older Krag rifles (always start low and work up to a load-your rifle is different than the next guys).

sjf · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:13:49 PM »

Tried a few more loads in the new tikka,

51.0 grs of MRP under 120 Ballistic tips with CCI BR2's came in at .6"

48.0 grs of MRP under Sierra 140 BTSP with Win WLR came in at .4"

captdave · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2009, 05:25:53 AM »

I use Hornady 129sp with 47gr H4831. Very accurate, and a great whitetail load. Low recoil too. Guns a remington 700.

hemlyb · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:24:13 AM »

How are you guys with the Tikka's seating the bullets?
Are they touching the land or are you seating them deeper.
The reason I ask is because I am seating mine just off the lands and with max powder charges getting velocities that book under the beginning charge weights per the nosler manual. Basically all loads are about 200 fps less than book velocities with equal charge weights.

usherj · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:47:21 PM »

I seat mine about .020" or .5mm off the lands. Allowing for differences in temp (assume around 70 degrees F for the book), my loads are a little slower, but I would attribute that to the slower rate of twist of the test rifle (1 in 9") vs the T3 (1 in 8"). Good to leave a little room for a hunting rifle, so you don't extract a cartridge and end up powder all over and bullet stuck in the barrel.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2009, 10:04:19 AM »

hemlyb,

Look at the specs for the test rifle used in developing the loads published in your manuals. Many times these are coming out of 29" barrels and that can produce the kind of velocity difference you are seeing.

Furthermore, the Swede does not rely on high MV for its great performance on game. So 100 fps or even 200 fps less than maximum is not of any practical significance.

hemlyb · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2009, 06:00:33 AM »

I would agree with you accept the Nosler 5th edition lists the loads developed in a rifle with a 24 inch barrel. The Tikka T3 Hunter has a 23.75" barrel so loads with the same amount of powder should generate roughly the same velocity. I am starting at min loads and working up the ladder in .5 grain increments.
I have worked with two different bullet weights and three different powders and the results have been the same each time about 200 fps below book loads. The issue is I have to load powders to max levels to get acheive starting velocities. So has anyone else noticed this? Is Nosler overstating velocities in this edition or could it be a variable with Primer, Case, bullet seating depth or temperature.
Nosler is loading with Remington brass and Rem 9.5 Primers. I am using Lapua brass and CCI-BR/Large Rifle primers. Could this with the variation in bullet seating depth cause a 200 fps difference

sjf · « **Reply #16 on:** May 12, 2009, 06:38:38 PM »

the nosler manual is notorious for getting much higher velocities than the average guy, I've been told it is because that they specify that their test barrels/chambers be on the minimum side of spec. if the loads are safe in a minimum spec barrel they are safe in the average barrel

atllaw R22 is the same as MRP i use the data intechangeably, (that ought to start a war

AtlLaw · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2009, 01:19:34 AM »

Quote from: sjf on May 12, 2009, 06:38:38 PM

R22 is the same as MRP i use the data intechangeably, (that ought to start a war

That is SO cool! I knew I liked R22 over the 4831's and now I know why!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2009, 01:35:52 PM »

I chronographed a few loads today. The Wolf 139 grain factory load went only 2447 fps average for five and grouped poorly. Sellier & Bellot 131 grain went 2637 fps with decent groups.
So much for European ammo, Federal beats that with a 140 grain
I also tried 129 grain Hornady's over 48 grains of H-450 for 2812 fps but accuracy was not what I'd hoped. I need to find a replacement for the H-450, I'm thinking RL-19 if I can find it.

41 mag · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2009, 12:22:50 AM »

As mentioned in an earlier post the original Swede's got the repetition of being great from excellent penetration and accuracy using heavy for caliber bullets which maintain great sectional density.

I got my daughter a sporterized one years ago simply to bang around in the woods with. Never figured it to me more than a 150yd rifle with the lower velocity. It has since proven me wrong cleanly taking with full penetration several feral hogs to ranges out past 400yds.

I worked up several loads using 140gr bullet with the overall best being the 140gr A-Max running just over 2650 fps. That particular load will shoot dime sized groups every time out, and with the lower velocity reliably penetrates and expands normally for great results.

I see so many times folks looking for velocity several hundred fps above what the older rifles and the original cartridge were designed for. IF they would simply go out and use them at the design velocity, with bullets in the original weights, I would bet that more often than not, they would see better groups and still see great performance in the field. To me seeing all the hub bub about lower velocity, and liability, and such, is like someone buying a 30-30 and trying to get it up to .308 performance. If you wanted a .260 then get one

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2009, 04:09:35 AM »

Quote from: 41 mag on June 07, 2009, 12:22:50 AM

To me seeing all the hub bub about lower velocity, and liability, and such, is like someone buying a 30-30 and trying to get it up to .308 performance. If you wanted a .260 then get one

Actually, no, it's more like buying a .308 and finding the ammo is loaded down to 30/30 performance. One has to handload the 6.5x55 just to get up to original specs. I have no doubt that Wolf ammo at 2447 fps would kill game but it still is quite disappointing. On the same day I also chronographed some Remington 30/30 150 grain corelokt at 2427 fps, just 20 fps shy of the Wolf 6.5mm. The 6.5s were from a Winchester M-70 with 22" barrel and the 30/30's from the 26" barrel of a Savage 219 singleshot which is shorter overall than the 22" Winchester.

41 mag · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2009, 08:44:39 AM »

Quote

The 6.5s were from a Winchester M-70 with 22" barrel and the 30/30's from the 26" barrel of a Savage 219 single shot which is shorter overall than the 22" Winchester.

Might be reading this wrong, but your saying that the 22" barrel on the 6.5 is only getting 20 something fps more velocity from a 4" shorter barrel? I am guessing here that even with the 24" barrel on the Savage that the complete rifle is still shorter in overall length than the M-70 ? This is generally the case when a single shot is compared in length to a bolt action as the action takes up around 3-4", however it doesn't add to velocity, where as the added length of the single shot barrel does. I guess I am not seeing what the point is, whether your upset at the velocity of the 6.5 from the 22" or the velocity from the 30-30 in a 24"?

Figuring at 50fps per inch of barrel, with equal length barrels being 26", the 6.5 would be roughly pushing 2650fps which is darn close to the original loads for this caliber.

Seeing the original rifles were built with 29" barrels on them, then subtracting the above 50fps per inch for a 22" barrel and using original standard loads of 2650 the velocity would be around 2300fps, so the ammo is still bettering an original load for the barrel length listed.

That said, even with the velocities where they are for factory loaded ammo, it will and does kill all out of proportion from what most people think. But in today's world of ballistics and uber magnums of this that and the other caliber something as mundane as 2600fps will simply bounce off any animal it is pointed at.

Like I said, the 6.5x55 is a great round as is, and will do things way out of proportion to what most think it will, at ranges further than most folks are capable of accurately shooting. Yes it can be loaded up to higher than factory loads "in a modern action", however this is up to the owner and not the responsibility of any of the manufacturers. I highly suspect that if your neighbor came over one day and asked if you could load him up some 45 Colt loads to around 1300fps for his 1898 Colt Single Action Army revolver, you would simply look at him and laugh, but maybe not. Bottom line is society and lawyers, have proven that if it can happen, someone else is to blame, but not the idiot who performed the act of stupidity to begin with. The manufacturers are simply abiding by the standards set, like it or not.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2009, 03:41:02 AM »

My point was that you have to handload the 6.5x55 to reach its' full potential. The Wolf factory loads run about 400 fps short of what we know can safely and sanely be done with handloads in the 6.5x55 and in fact it nearly duplicates the 150 grain 30/30 factory load, although admitting the 30/30 velocities were from a barrel 4" longer.
Your correction value of 50 fps per inch of barrel is grossly excessive, the figure commonly thrown out is 25 fps per inch but even that is probably excessive for low intensity cartridges and barrels longer than 22". The older Lyman reloading manuals developed loads for the 6.5x55 from an 18" Swedish M-94 carbine and even in that short barrel they were able to push the 140 grain bullet past 2600 fps perfectly safely.
Many people have gone to considerable expense to have rifles built for wildcat cartridges which produced far less advantage over commonly available factory cartridges than is available by simply handloading the 6.5 Swede. Now if you are saying you don't need those extra fps, that is another matter. I probably don't really need it either but since it is available why leave it at home?

As to "modern rifles", I've owned a couple of m-96 Swedish Mausers and loaded them the same. I don't consider my Winchester m-70 to be in any way stronger or safer than an 1896 Swedish Mauser, just lighter, better handling and prettier. The Norwegian Krag? Well yes, the factory loads are probably plenty for that one.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #23 on:** June 08, 2009, 04:27:14 AM »

I LOVE Swedes and the 6.5x55! My one and only, built just for me, to my specs, custom rifle is built on a 96 action and is chambered in the 6.5x55.

However, I have yet to load for it...

Haven't had to... the darn thing puts any factory ammo I feed it into an inch!

I'm going to though. Next time it comes up in the hunting rotation I'm planning on working up a 160 grain load.

When I do I'll let you know.

Win 88 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 08, 2009, 07:19:34 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on June 08, 2009, 04:27:14 AM

--- Next time it comes up in the hunting rotation I'm planning on working up a 160 grain load. ---

That's the proper bullet weight for that calibre!

Try to get cases from Norma, Lapua och Sako, if you want proper dimensions. Data: www.norma.cc

Pete

coyotejoe · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:27:12 AM »

Quote from: Win 88 on June 08, 2009, 07:19:34 PM

Quote from: AtlLaw on June 08, 2009, 04:27:14 AM
--- Next time it comes up in the hunting rotation I'm planning on working up a 160 grain load. ---

That's the proper bullet weight for that calibre!

Try to get cases from Norma, Lapua och Sako, if you want proper dimensions. Data: www.norma.cc

Pete

The 160 grain roundnose is the "proper" 6.5 bullet to those who believe a 220 grain roundnose is the proper 30/06 bullet.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #26 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:33:49 AM »

I think you're both right!

For me, at this time, the proper bullet for the 6.5x55 is the 160 gr. A 140 gr. may become "more" proper sometime, it has been for me in the past, but for now the 160 properly trips my trigger!

AND, as an aside, right now I think 120 grs. is the "proper" bullet weight for my 260...

I laughed at your reply there C-Joe! But even then I would have said the proper analogy would have been the 30/40... But that begs the question, Can one bullet weight be proprietarily properly proper in two different cart-a-ges?

Win, some years back I worried about the case head dimentions of US made brass. But I have never had a problem with it in any of my Swedes so I have come to the conclusion that it is a non-issue... $:-\$ Though US case dimentions are certainly not...

wait for it...

here it comes...

PROPER!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #27 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:29:07 AM »

Yep, you got it! There is good reason why they make all of those different bullets. You are a proper gentleman!

The 6.5/160 and the '06/220 are ballistic twins, nearly identical in sectional density, ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity, both were original military loads and both were very quickly replaced with lighter spirepoints in their military configuration and both are likely to drill right through American game with but little expansion.
If I were hunting moose where shots would be at short range and may require rear angle raking shots I might think the 160 to be quite proper for that application.
Here in the more open country of Colorado I've not even considered the 160 grain bullets. The 120's have given me complete pass throughs on everything shot thus far, even with the explosive Nosler Ballistic tips. How could I use, much less need, more penetration than that? I've always managed to keep shots behind the shoulder thus far but I'm now working up loads for the 129 grain Hornady because those BT's ARE explosive and I'm sure it would totally destroy a shoulder if I let one stray a bit forward. If I get them to group like the Nosler BTs I think all will be quite proper.

lgm270 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2009, 01:57:21 PM »

I did a lot of loading for the 6.5x55 and had my best results with IMR 4350 and RL 22.