Author Topic: inlarging primer holes  (Read 839 times)

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Offline zacharoo

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inlarging primer holes
« on: October 02, 2008, 12:33:52 PM »
I was told by a  technician for a brass company that somepeople drill out or enlarge primer holes in handgun brass. WHY ???? Has anyone ever heard of this?
Zacharoo

Offline Catfish

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 02:44:44 PM »
When you drill out the touch holes it does 2 things. 1. It lets in more fire for better ignition. 2. It lets out more presure and will blow primers at a much lower presure. Bench Rest shooters will open all touch hole to the same diameter, but it`s just enough to make sure they are all the same size.

Offline zacharoo

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 04:20:05 PM »
To what size would say a 45 LC be enlarged to and what is the difference in pressure on the round. that is compairing the same powder charge the same bullet and primer?
Zacharoo

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 01:38:40 AM »
the only time ive heard of this and the only time it would be exceptable is guys wil drill out the hole for ammo that shoots wax bullets just using a primer and no powder to propell them. Trueing them up and removing burs is something that alot of bench rest rifle guys do but it isnt going to do much for you in handgun brass.
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Offline bilmac

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 03:23:11 AM »
Now you know all there is to know about drilling flash holes Zach. I just have to add that shooting wax bullets has kind of gone by the way, no one seems to do it anymore. Just for giggles I once loaded some up and the other cop on my station and I went out and shot like we had a bad guy in front of us and it was shoot fast or die. It was pretty illuminating, actually we were smoother than I thought we would have been, credit that to years of good training.

Offline Selmer

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 03:59:57 AM »
I you go over to www.castboolits.gunloads.com forums, you will find that there are still a few guys doing this to shoot what they call "glooblits".  They are bullets cast in molds from hot glue guns and fired using on the primer, sometimes with the flash hole enlarged.  I've done it, it makes for entertaining indoor shooting in the basement, and the glooblits can be re-used several times.
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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 05:12:55 AM »
ZACH:
"To what size would say a 45 LC be enlarged to and what is the difference in pressure on the round. that is compairing the same powder charge the same bullet and primer?"

There is no difference to the pressure.
The larger hole only comes into play in the event of a high pressure blowout.
In other words the primer would let go at a lower pressure level than it would take to blow it in a case that has not had the hole enlarged.
If the load isn't enough to blow the enlarged primer than the pressure would remain the same as the case with out the larger hole.
 
Correct me guy if I am wrong.


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Offline charles p

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 12:42:35 PM »
When I was in the Coast Guard and training videos were on reel type movie projectors, we used to project bad guy movies on a roll of large paper, and fire at the bad guys with 45ACP rounds with just primers and plastic bullets.  We did this indoors as part of firearms qualifications.  We would stop the movie when a shot was fired, then back it up to see if the member got shot by the bad guy, or got off an accurate shot in time to kill the bad guy.  Lot's of fun.  Surprised it isn't a sport.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 01:29:02 PM »
Zacharoo

Your not going to gain anything by enlarging the flash holes in a 45LC case , the chances are good that you will start to pop out primers and thats a bad thing .

Look at it this way , take a garden hose with 50 psi and point it at your car window , probably nothing will break . Now take that same 50 psi , only this time use a 2" fire hose , time to relpace the window !  ;)

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Offline zacharoo

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 05:39:35 PM »
Thanks Stimpy that makes it easy to understand. That is terms even I can understand!
Zacharoo

Offline Savage

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 04:28:14 AM »
Zackaroo,
Longtom is exactly correct! While I can think of no advantage to enlarging flash holes for normal usage, it's not going to cause ill effects unless you go nuts with the drill size. Does anyone remember the "WinClean" ammo? The .45ACP brass that I have picked up at the range had a flash hole twice the size of other cases. I have reloaded that brass many times using my normal range load. Chrono readings were in line with loadings in standard brass, and no pressure signs. I am told that Winchester enlarged the flash hole to accommodate the somewhat weaker priming compound used in the "WinClean" loading. Still, why drill out perfectly good brass?
Savage
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Offline yooper77

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 05:11:19 AM »
http://www.starlinebrass.com/descriptions.html#Blank Cases

Blank Cases - Starline offers several cases that are designed for use in Blanks, including the most popular 45 Colt blank for mounted cowboy shooting. Blanks have an oversized flash hole of .140 diameter and CANNOT BE USED TO LOAD LIVE AMMUNITION.

yooper77

Offline bilmac

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 06:23:48 AM »
Any way to recognize this stuff so it doesn't get reloaded by accident?

Offline Savage

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 07:28:28 AM »
From the Winchester web site:
Question: Can the WinClean ammo be reloading with standard reloading data?

Answer: Regarding the enlarged flash hole of the shellcase loaded in 45 Auto WinClean products (WC451 and WC452): The flash hole in this shellcase was enlarged in order to achieve optimal ignition while utilizing a lead/ heavy metal free primer. Winchester conducted extensive testing prior to the introduction of this product and determined that the larger flash hole will not have an adverse effect on reloads using standard leaded primers. Please remember, Winchester does not offer a component lead/ heavy metal free primer. Other calibers within the WinClean line are manufactured with a standard diameter flash hole. As always, reloaders should utilize published data from a recognized source and work loads up carefully."


www.winchester.com

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Offline fastbike

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 09:35:19 AM »
You'll be able to see the difference.

Any way to recognize this stuff so it doesn't get reloaded by accident?

Offline Steve P

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Re: inlarging primer holes
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2008, 09:38:29 AM »
I am not an engineer, nor an expert.  However, I do consider myself to be "scholarly" when it comes to guns, reloading, etc.  So, here is my nickels worth:

I have some Lapua 6BR brass that I load for competition in my 6.5BR XP-100.  It has such a small flash hole that I have to buy smaller decaping pins to use in my resizing die.  My Remington 7BR brass has small rifle primers and a flash hole that is just a little bit larger and accepts the standard decapping pin.  A buddy of mine has some early 7BR brass that is probably necked down .308 brass.  It has a large rifle primer and a little larger primer hole yet.  Same type brass used in same type gun with different size primer holes.

Stimpy's example with the garden hose is a good illustration here also.  Garden hose with no constriction and you get high volume coming out of end of hose.  Add a little contriction and you get higher pressure within the hose and the water squirts out further.  Now restrict it a little more.  More pressure in the hose and the water squirts out even further.

Small primer hole has a flash that is restricted and comes out like a torch flame.  It forces it's way into the case to ignite all the powder.  A little larger primer hole has less restriction so you have a wider flame pattern that is not quite as long.  It doesn't penetrate into the powder as fast as the more restricted flame and the powder at the bottom of the case is burning faster than the powder toward the neck or your case. Open up the primer hole a little more and you get a ball of fire coming out of the flash hole igniting the powder in the bottom of the shell only.  The pressure is generated by the  acceleration of the powder burn rate.  BUT, while this pressure leaving the primer cup, you also have pressure builiding within the cartridge case.  Your pressure within the case is going to build and force your bullet out of the case before the pressure is great enough to start pushing back thru the primer hole.  Per some of the bench rest experts, pressures are more controlled when the flame lights more powder down the length of the case and thus you get more consistent pressures and initiation of momentum within the cartridge case.

I too have seen the brass with the drilled out primer flash hole for shooting wax bullets and plastic or rubber target bullets.  The main reason was to keep the initial flash from burning the back of the bullets.  It allows all the pressure from the primer charge to exit the primer pocket, into the empty case, and you get a fast pressure equalization.  You have no powder igniting so no pressure is building back into the primer pocket.  It is all filling the case and initializing bullet acceleration.  If you don't like the speed of your wax bullet with a standard primer, try a magnum primer and see how much more you get.

Just adding another nickels worth of info into the plethora of knowledge base in this forum.

Steve  :)
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