Having trouble getting groups w/Omega....Suggestions please!

[vonfatman]

I've had my Omega now for a couple years and I'm about ready to give it the boot.

For the life of me I seem to be unable to get better than 6"-8" groups at 100 yards.
I have a $79.00 CVA Staghorn that will group 3" with a dang peep sight!  I bet with a scope it would drop that into the 2" range.

I'm going to make one last attempt at getting this Omega to shoot.

It's a blued gun with black composite stock.  It's serial number: 43902

On the barrel sits a Leupold one-piece base and a Sightron 2-7.5 scope.  All is snug & tight.

My buddy's Omega (stainless) gets 1-2" groups with Powerbelts...it's an amazing gun...I bought this Omega after trying/sighting-in his gun.

The jury is still out on this one.

I'm using Triple 7 FFG....90 grains.
I've used Precision Rifle's 235gr QT Polymer Tip (which group great in my Staghorn) but get awful results in the Omega...no grouping less than 6-8".

I've used T/C's 240gr MagSabots (these use the Hornady 240gr XTP bullet in a black plactic sabot)...same deal....6-8"  groups.

I swab and dry after each shot.  I've tried not swabbing.  I'm not doing something right.

Could you Omega owners give me some direction here?  I have no problem seating these bullets/sabots as long as I swab the barrel, they go in just fine.

I can move to a smaller sabot or a larger one...I can move up in charge or down.  I can try a different powder.  I'm looking for guidance.  I do not want to give up on this gun if I'm just not looking at enough variables.  (however, it seems like the gun should work better with what I've tried).


I'd sure appreciate some help.

Bob

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

240-250gr XTP with MMP-12 And/Or MMP-24  sabots. These are the Short Black.

[southpaw268888]

3 Triple Seven Pellets or 117 grn's loose Triple Seven and an 250 Shockwave bullet.  Triple 7 primers.  Sub 2" groups

[sabotloader]

bigblock455

XTP with MMP-12 And/Or MMP-24  sabots. These are the Short Black.

think you might be incorrect here.... I doubt very much you will get a HPH-12 down an Omega without a hammer... the 12 is .506/7 sabot and as you already know the bore on the older Omega's is .502 and the bore on the newer versions is .500.  The HPH-24 will go down the .502 bore very well as will the regular Harvesters either the short black or the regular black.  If you have a newer Omega/Triumph or Encore you will probably need to go to one of the EZ loads or a Harvester "crush rib"

Neither the HPH-12 or the HPH-24 is a short black sabot.  The MMP short black sabot is not an HPH and is the thickest sabot they make .507/8.   It works well in the Savage, older Knights and current .504 Whites.

[sabotloader]

vonfatman

Just guessing here - can not realy tell you without seeing your gun... but probably your problem is the stock.  The composit black stock can/has caused the POI to move in a lot of the Omega's.  A long while back I wrote a post on these problems and possible corrections... I'll see if I can find it...

another possible problem is the rear lug... if you have a newer model the rear lug may not be welded to the barrel... it is held in place by two torx screws.. if this lug has worked loose it can create problems with POI also.

Might check this thread out...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7786&highlight=omega+weakness

or even this one...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10364

hope some of this helps... I have had 3 different Omegas and they are all shooters.... I still have my original SS Omega which is a great ML...

[kyelkhunter3006]

I think that a little more info is in order....are your groups from a bench rest set-up or are they standing off-hand, for example?  If they're a bench, then they suck.  If they're off-hand, well, you're not doing too shabby.. 

1.  Try different powder charges, granulations, and types.  Some guns like it hot, some don't (I'd put yours here, it seems, from your info).  Pyrodex shoots better in some guns than 777 does.  Some guns like pellets better than loose.  Etc.

2.  You need to buy several different types of bullets to try.  Two isn't enough to figure out what it likes.  Honestly, try the different T/C bullets first, they are the ones that the gun is designed to shoot.

3.  Try a different primer.

4.  Try a different scope.  Scopes are mechanical and can/will fail at any time.

5.  Make sure that the stock bolts are tight.

6.  What type of shooting bench set-up are shooting from? 

I had a blue/syn Omega (now called the Z5) and it shot 3/4" right out of the box with 100gr of 777 FFFg and the 250gr Shockwave.  Didn't even try anything else in it, I figured I was good.  I now have a stainless/syn one that groups under an inch with 100gr of 777 FFg and the 250g gr SW.  It shoots the Mag Express 300gr and the 300gr SW almost as well with 100gr of 777 FFg.  I have NOT had good results with the 200gr SW as of yet, but it's going to get another try. 

It took a bit of shooting for this gun to settle in, unlike the blued one.  After the 50 round mark, groupsw became much more consistent and tightened up a good bit as well.

I have found that in most of my guns, I got better accuracy with FFFg 777 than with FFg, but I bought 5 cans of the FFg on clearance for $10 a can this spring, so that's what I'm shooting right now. 

In the stainless gun, for 777 primers are worthless, for some reason.  I had consistent misfires with them, bought another pack at a different store, and the same problem.  The blued one loved the 777 primers.  I switched to the Remington Kleen-bore primer for the stainless gun and haven't had any problems.


The stock could be the problem.....  It could also be that the crown of the barrel past the QLA is not concentric or is damaged...  The only way to find out if that's the problem is to either take it to a gunsmith or send it back to T/C.

[Varmint Hunter]

6" - 8" is an extremely large group, at least in IMO. The rifle shouldn't be producing accuracy like that with any combo.

I would confirm that the scope mounts are tight and would use another scope as a test. If the gun still shoots erratic then I'd place a call to T/C. Something sounds fundamentally wrong. By the time you figure it out yourself you may go through a few hundred dollars in powder & projectiles and still have a gun that isn't shooting well.

Just my thoughts.

[vonfatman]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments/suggestions.  You folks are a wealth of information.

I am shooting of of a rest.  I have tried a couple other bullets as well.  When my buddy had his Omega over for me to sight in, I tried his Pyrodex.

I have also had better results with 777 fffg in my Staghorn.  No joy with the Omega.  Like you, I was able to pick up 5 lbs of 777 ffg for $8.00/lb on clearance a couple seasons back and have been focusing on the ffg.

I have several packs of primers...and have used two types so far.

I have not tried a different scope.  I did not torque the stock bolts.  My shooting bench is of treated lumber, sturdy and strong.

I've not looked at the stock or the crown (other than using my un-educated eyes).

Per your suggestions, I have contacted T/C and the lady in Customer Service suggested I ship it back for a look-see.

I'm was debating doing this but I think that I will ship the gun to them and let them take a look before I go through the process of elimination on the many possible variables because I've not had much success with the changes I have tried...I'm still shooting a not so accurate Omega.

Gentlemen, Thanks!!

I will post the results of T/C's evaluation when I get the gun back.  I can shoot my Staghorn  if they do not get the Omega turned around before muzzle loader season.

Bob


 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Staghorn is a great little rifle, had 2 of them. One loved the 410gr great plains conical.

[DennyRoark]

Are your groups fairly consistantly moving left/right or up/down, or just all over.  My first Omega X7 had a bulged barrel and shot 1/2" side to side and 15" up/down @ 100 yds.  T/C replaced it and my new one is at the smith's getting pillar-blocked.  It had .050" side play inside the stock and shot left/right bad.  Try using a feeler gage and centering the barrel in the stock (the barrel is free floated so check it at the end), then gorilla tighten the bolts.  If the group tightens up, have it bedded.  IMHO, the sloppy fit of these stocks is terrible!  Most times when you complain of accuracy, T/C just swaps out the gun, no testing.  That's what they did to mine.  If you send it in, talk to Brian in the custom shop.  He really knows his stuff!

Denny

[poncaguy]

250 Shockwaves and 120 grains of loose 777 and Win 209 primers worked well in my Omega Z5........................

[AndyHass]

Your issues sound so severe I just might recommend sending it back first.  You can screw with it, but at the price of ammo that could get expensive fast.  Maybe try 1-2 more bullet types, but that is it.  It is one thing to accurize a gun shooting 2-4" groups or with a shifting POI (ie stock contact issues), and quite another to fix 6-8" groups!

[vonfatman]

Thanks guy.  It's in the mail.  We'll see in a few weeks.

Bob