new to trad

[Illhunter]

Thinking about getting a more traditional ML in probably 50 cal but maybe a 58 cal if right deal comes up. Which ones are decent and can shoot conicals and round balls possibly. don't have much to spend so any thoughts and info would be appreciated.


Terry   

[pab1]

Rather than compromise with a 1:48 twist muzzleloader, I would recommend a Lyman Great Plains Rifle. The GPR is considered to be about the most historically accurate production rifles. You can buy a fast twist (1:32) "Hunter" barrel for connicals and use a slow twist (1:60) barrel for prb. Midsouth sells the GPR for $409-$442 depending on whether you want a percussion or flinter and replacement barrels for $116-$150. A .54 cal would be a good compromise between the .50 and .58 you mentioned. Some people have good luck getting accuracy with both types of projectiles in a 1:48, but in my experience I prefer a slow twist for prb and a fast twist for connicals.

[Ladobe]

Most folks get very good duel purpose accuracy out of TC 1:48 barrels shooting PRB and maxiballs, and there is usually plenty of their Hawken and Renegade rifles around used that can save you some money getting into traditional.

[Illhunter]

Thanks all for the helpso far. I was thinking 58 calbecause an aquaintance casts RB and conicals for the 58 and 50. I also considered a 54 cal. Ihave been looking at all the different rifles on GB and Auctionarms. I also looked at the many different makes like t/c,cva, and lyman.I like the lyman and the t/c are nice to.

[coyotejoe]

You don't mention the price range but I will say I consider the Lyman Trade Rifle to be a real bargain on today's market at about $250 new. You can perhaps get a used T/C for about the same price but as a long time black powder gunsmith I think the Lyman is actually a better gun. Nearly every used muzzleloader I have examined has had a pitted bore and often bulged or ringed as well. I basically just expect that and will not buy a used rifle unless I get it cheap enough to afford to replace the barrel. Another plus for the Trade Rifle is that they can use the same Green Mountain drop in barrel as made for T/Cs. I'd suggest you get a new Lyman Trade Rifle in .50 caliber. It will shoot the maxi-balls very well and round balls OK. If you find you want better accuracy with balls you can get a Green Mountain drop in barrel in your choice of calibers and have the best of both worlds for a total price still less than a new T/C or Great Plains Rifle.

[Illhunter]

I will check into the lyman trade rifle. Ihave also been looking at some of the hawkens kits to. I was looking at a new inline at one point and liked the mustang but right now would prefer to go more traditional and $250 is going to be about as high as i will go right now.

Terry 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Do a search for a CVA Mountain Rifle and see if you can find a .54cal.  The .54+ is a slow twist 1:66 rifling for round balls only and trust me, that 230gr round ball will put anything down.

[Illhunter]

thanks for the suggestion about the cva. I will check into it as well. Ihadan inline that I had to sell and have decided i wanted a something different this time when I buy new one. 

[kevthebassman]

You won't regret going traditional.  I find shooting flintlocks infinitely more rewarding than shoving pellets and pistol bullets wrapped in plastic down the front of a thoroughly modern contraption. 

I won't dispute that the scoped inlines are efficient killing machines, because they most certainly are.  Outside 100 yards is where they become superior to a good roundball gun.  The problem is that there is absolutely no romance in them.  They are soulless killing machines, I'd just as soon kill a deer with a predator drone like the Air Force uses. 

With a name like Illhunter, am I right to assume that you are from Illinois?  If so, which part?

[Illhunter]

yes from Illinois and not sure where you are but i am close to grafton or alton. I am probably about 10 minutes from the Mississippi river up on the bluffs. I am about 45 minutes to an hour from St.louis and cole to where IL and Mississippi river meet. west central part of IL an hour from pike county. Are you from IL Kev.

Terry

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Well its not a .54cal but the twist will allow you to shoot PRB and conicals.
http://www.possibleshop.com/cva-rifles.htm

[kevthebassman]

yes from Illinois and not sure where you are but i am close to grafton or alton. I am probably about 10 minutes from the Mississippi river up on the bluffs. I am about 45 minutes to an hour from St.louis and cole to where IL and Mississippi river meet. west central part of IL an hour from pike county. Are you from IL Kev.

Terry

Terry, I'm from the Missouri side (thank God) down south-west of St. Louis.  I'm a member down at the Arnold Rifle and Pistol Club and we have just (re)started up a black powder club.  Don't know if you're interested in a membership so far from home but if you'd like to come down and be my guest some afternoon I'd be more than happy to tell you all I know about shooting traditional muzzleloaders.  It took me a lot of trial and error (mostly error) to learn what I know but the 'net and fellow shooters were a big help.

[Illhunter]

Thanks for the offer Kev. I may have to take you up on that offer someday when i get back to work. which will be soon hopefully. I have been to Arnold a few times. I would definitely like to do some shooting with you though cause there is no clubs around here that I know of.
I need to do some checking. I am not sure if i want to go to a flintlock yet but might in the future.


Terry
   

[kevthebassman]

I've done both flinters and caplocks, and I find the flinters more fun.  Don't let folks intimidate you out of a flintlock.  They're easy to learn and mastering them is part of the fun.  When you do get them figured out, they're every bit as fast and accurate as caplock guns, and with proper care every bit as reliable.

There is a ton of information on the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum.  I learned a lot from those guys.  They are an opinionated bunch, so keep a thick skin.

Shoot me a PM sometime when you feel like going down to Arnold.  I'll bring my flinter and you can shoot it as much as your heart desires.

[Illhunter]

I figure they know more than i do so i will listen. the decision on flintlock or cap will be made soon enough.  any info i can get helps me. where do you get supplies for your ML. do you use real BP.  I can'tfind real BP close by so closest place to get it for me is in St. Charles, MO place called Graf's reloading.

Terry   

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

with a flinter, you must use real black powder! I have 2 flinters that i cant even shoot due to the cost of the drive to the nearest store that carries it.

[Illhunter]

It is about a 35 minute drive to get real BP for me but besides gas it will cost me a $12 round trip ferry ticket so when Igo to buy it I will buy more than one pound at a time that is for sure and if i remember right it is about $10-$12 a pounds might get better price if buy in larger quantity. Hazmat fees are a bit expensive.

bigblock you could send me one of those flinters andi will put it to good use for you. 

Kev, I am actually a member of that site but had forgot I was that site is very good full of information. 

[kevthebassman]

Graf's is the only place I know of around STL that carried real black.  Just buy enough to get you through a few months of shooting at a time.  I usually make a trip up to Bass Pro or Cabelas three or four times a year so I buy powder then.

[Illhunter]

that is true about Graf's being only place around with real BP.