Lyman 358429?

[S.B.]

Anybody have any experience with this bullet in their .357 magnum pistols? I know I'll have to load it in .38 special cases in my S&Ws but, how's your accuracy been with it? How does it preform on whitetails/hogs? Not much in the search materials here on the forum.

[Cottonwood]

Only a bullet caster could give you that information.

What style of bullet is this? 

A round nose?

A SWC bullet?

What grain weight?

I couldn't tell you based on the information provided.

[Graybeard]

I have a four cavity mold that belonged to a friend of mine who is now deceased. When he loaned it to me he said to keep it until he asked for it back. He didn't prior to his death so I reckon that means I have to keep it until my death.

I've cast and shot several thousand rounds with it mostly using linotype and monotype and man those rascals are HARD. Often if not sized smaller than .358" they'll buldge the case some times too much to fit into a tight chamber. The do shoot accurately and hit hard their only real draw back is they are so long that many cylinders are too short for them in a full length .357 Magnum case. You can indeed load them in .38 cases or even trim a .357 case just enough for them to fit your cylinder and load them that way. Use 2400 and enjoy.

[BCB]

The bullet design is a Keith-style bullet.  It weighs in at right around 170 grains when cast from an alloy of 2-1 (ww-#2).  I shoot if from and old Smith Model 10 Victory @ 555 to 625 fps, in a Ruger Security-Six @ 922 to 1247 fps and from a Marlin 1894 @ 1227 to 1554 fps.  Accuracy is very good in all mentioned.  It is a difficult bullet to go wrong with!  I have cast them from pure lead and used a Forster Hollow-Pointer and they expand very well from the Ruger and the Marlin.  Only ever shot one deer and it was within 25 yards.  It walked about 30 yards and lay down for the final time.  I don’t know how well they would do on hogs—might not have enough energy from the 357 Magnum.  It is my favorite cast bullet for the 38 Special or the 357 Magnum.  Good-luck…BCB

[S.B.]

I know this is a handgun forum and off topic but, has anyone loaded these in a .35 Renington for a Marlin?

[Graybeard]

I did and seem to recall they didn't feed well due to the SWC design. They can work in a Marlin but you might need a bit of extra care in chambering them.

[S.B.]

Thanks Bill, I'll have to try that.
Steve

[MS Hitman]

I cast my bullets from wheelweights and load the .38-44 loads for my Model 28 Smith.  They clock out of my revolver at nearly 1,400 fps.  We don't grow deer big enough down South to hold those bullets once launched.

[Mikey]

S.B.:  I used that bullet a number of years ago and had to give it up when the bullet caster left town.......

I used Lyman Manual loads for that in my 357s and I recall them to be accurate.  7 gns of Unique gets you 1187'/sec from a 5" bbl and that is listed as the accuracy load.  You can max out 4227 at 12.2 gns for about 1200'/sec and 2400 ranges from 11-13gns and will get you to 1180'/sec. 

That's a nice long bullet and I have no doubt it will pass on through a Whitetail out to 50 yds. 

Hog?  Should bust a shoulder and pass into the chest cavity and maybe pass through but it depends on how heavy that Hog is.

Here's one for ya----an old Winchester load uses 12.4 gns of 296 under a 200 gn slug for a stated 1335'/sec (no known barrel length though).  I substitute the old round nose slug with a 200 gn hard cast semi-wadcutter from either Colorado Cast Bullets or Mt. Baldy Bullets.  This is an accurate load for me and it is about the only slug I shoot in either my 357s or 38s.

My preferred 38 load for this slug is another old Winchester load using 3.8 gns of 231 for a modest 770'/sec (again, no known barrel length) but that load groups incredibly well from my 2 j-frame snubbies, a Colt Diamondback and a couple of run of the mill 4" Model 10s.  With the 38 case I have to seat them to the top of the leading band to get them to fit into the j-frame chambers.    I have no doubt the velocity from the snubbies is probably down to about 700'/sec but that doesn't bother me a bit.  HTH.  Mikey

[S.B.]

The bullet design is a Keith-style bullet.  It weighs in at right around 170 grains when cast from an alloy of 2-1 (ww-#2).  I shoot if from and old Smith Model 10 Victory @ 555 to 625 fps, in a Ruger Security-Six @ 922 to 1247 fps and from a Marlin 1894 @ 1227 to 1554 fps.  Accuracy is very good in all mentioned.  It is a difficult bullet to go wrong with!  I have cast them from pure lead and used a Forster Hollow-Pointer and they expand very well from the Ruger and the Marlin.  Only ever shot one deer and it was within 25 yards.  It walked about 30 yards and lay down for the final time.  I don’t know how well they would do on hogs—might not have enough energy from the 357 Magnum.  It is my favorite cast bullet for the 38 Special or the 357 Magnum.  Good-luck…BCB

If I load these in .38 special cases and use them in .38 special guns of S&W manufacture(especially J framed guns), will the OAL be of concern? You talk like you use them indiscriminately.
Your statement about "old Smith Model 10 Victory" has me confused, also, are you talking about a model 10(post 1957 era) or Victory model (pre war era)and in .38 S&W or .38 special(very rare and valuable in Victorys)?

[LouisianaMan]

Mikey,
I forgot to ask you in an earlier email about the crimp you use on your 200-grain .38SPL loads. You state that you crimp "at the top of the leading band," so should I just crimp it as best I can there, or try to get a crimp slightly overlapping that band? (I don't have these bullets yet, but have examined a picture on the Colorado Cast Bullets website.) If you could post or email me a photo of a loaded round, I would appreciate it! Apparently you've had no problems with bullets backing out under recoil, so it's probably simpler than I'm making it seem.
Thanks in advance,
Louisiana Man

[S.B.]

Mikey, were you loading those in .38 special cases or did you crimp them on the front driving band? Neither of my 27s cylinders are long enough to load these in .357 cases without crimping on the front band.

[Autorim]

This is a great bullet. Very accurate. Designed by Elmer Keith. I have shot lots of them, along with the 358156 GC, but listen to Graybeard. I think you should always crimp cast bullets in the crimp groove. I seat until there is a very small gap between the case mouth and the top band. I crimp in a separate operation with the Lee factory crimp die.

The 358429 will always work in a .38, but if you seat and crimp properly, it will be too long for some .357 cylinders. If a properly assembled round is too long for your cylinder - do as Graybeard says and trim a batch of .357 cases back until you can chamber it. If you do not seat in the crimp groove, you run the risk of a bullet moving forward from recoil.

Autorim

[S.B.]

I refuse to trim my .357 mag. cases for this bullet. I'll just load them in .38 special cases or crimp on the front driving band and not have two different length cases in the same caliber. I'm easily confused as it is. My $.02.
Steve

[Mikey]

S.B. and LouisianaMan:  When the slug is too long for my chambers if I crimp in the crimp groove I just apply a slight roll crimp over the front edge of the leading band.  I do not get higher pressure signs or lose accuracy.  I have roll crimped over the front leading band for years with some of my S&W revolvers without ill effect. 

I once tried using shortened 357 cases and it became a pita, so I dropped the practice and simply seated the slug to enable a roll crimp over the front leading band.  HTH. Mikey.

[warrior1]

i hope to pick up one of these moulds in the near future. dan

[LouisianaMan]

I wrote at greater length in another posting about my satisfaction using Mikey's load (3.8g Win 231 crimped lightly over the leading edge of the 200g LSWC shoulder). I'll just say here that it functions fine in my two .38s, is strong but pleasant to shoot, and seems to hit with authority!

[Ken ONeill]

Does anyone know if 358429 (sized to .357") will work in .357 cases in a FA Mdl. 83?

[Mikey]

Ken - that bullet should work perfectly in 357 cases in your FA.  Take a look at Graybeard's post and BCBs post and you will get a good idea of how well they work.  Take a look at my posts to S.B. and Louisiannaman for seating the slugs and crimping the cases.  As S.B. and I have both determined, the slug is too long for our 357 chambers when seated to the crimp groove and crimped there.  You may also have to seat the slug to the front leading band and crimp slightly over the front leading band to get the loaded cartridge to chamber properly in your FA.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Racer X]

Will these fit in a Ruger GP-100 without having to trim cases or crimp over the front driving band?

[Ken ONeill]

Mikey,
Thanks. I knew they could be made to work be seating them to the shoulder and then crimping them, or by using .38 Special cases. I wanted to crimp in the crimp groove of .357 cases though, and thought someone might know if that could be done in the FA 83 cylinder. I'll try to get the dimensions of the 358429 and figure it out.

[Graybeard]

Yeah there should be plenty of room in an FA83 cylinder but likely would not be in an FA97 cylinder.

[Tallwalker]

The 358429 should fit fine in any Ruger cylinder except for some of the early SP-101's.

[S.B.]

Wouldn't it be wiser to use magnum cases and eliminate excess bullet jump into the forcing cone? I don't know about pistols but, rifles are better loaded as far out as possible.

[Graybeard]

It isn't always that simple. With revolvers some bullets are just too long in the nose to fit into all cylinders when loaded in magnum cases thus if you wanna use that bullet in that gun you gotta use a shorter case. When that's the case you aren't really getting much bullet jump as it's where the nose of it is that determines how far it jumps before it leaves the cylinder and ya gotta keep it fully inside the cylinder with a bit of extra for bullet jump during recoil.

[crossfire]

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357%20Magnum&Weight=173&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

.357 Mag and .38-44 Heavy Duty load data from Handloads.com