25.06

[pjeffreys]

hey everyone, i'm new to greybeard's forum and probably new to reloading compared to all of you. i need some help with a frustrating problem. i have a ruger model 77 25.06 and i can't get a load to shoot out of it. i have tried sierra 117 grain gamekings and hornady 117 SSTs. i'm using Reloader 22 powder. i've just bought some nosler 110 grain accubonds which is what i would really like to shoot. do any of y'all have any recommendations or good loads that are accurate for the 25.06? thanks for your help.

[LaOtto222]

Welcome to GBO

You did not state if the loads you have go bang or they are just not accurate. If they are not accurate, how bad? If you are having real bad accuracy problems (6"+ @ 100 yards), it could be a lot of things. It could be the crown is bad as one example. If you are have a little problem with accuracy, like 2" at 100 yards, then a different bullet or powder load could help. If you are getting failed to fires, then you have an issue with the gun, more than likely, like light primer strikes, but it could be bad primers or poorly seated primers. Accuracy problems can be caused by bullets not seated concentric or inconsistent neck tension. Are the cases full length sized? The list goes on and on. I need more information before I can help. I do not have a 25.06 to say use this sure fire load, but proper loading techniques are universal. It sounds like you are having other issues; issues that a super load will not fix. Remember not all guns like the same load. Some times you just get a bad gun, it happens with all manufactures from time to time. Your shooting technique maybe could use a little help. Are you using hearing protection? The 25.06 does not kick much, but some times the loudness makes people flinch. I shoot better with even 223's when I wear hearing protection. For me it is accumulative. I start out shooting OK then as the shots add up it starts wearing on me and my accuracy goes South. I found this out years ago when I was young enough to think I was bullet proof. I have got to the point of not even wanting to shoot with out hearing protection. Does it shoot OK with factory ammo, or do they shoot miserably too? I would think RL 22 would be a likely powder for the bullets you have tried. Did you start with the lowest powder charge and work your way up for each bullet? Did accuracy improve then drop off, but you just did not find one that was accurate? Remember, the top loads are not always your most accurate loads. There are so many factors in shooting tight groups. Many people think it is easy or they should be able to do it with a certain powder or bullet, when in fact it some times takes quite a bit of development to make it all come together. I am not rattling your chain or trying to make you feel bad, but more information would be helpful in solving your problem. I gave you some things to think about. Let us know if you have found any answers or if you need further help. Good Shooting and Good Luck

[HBPIC]

IMHO, Try IMR 4831..Got two 25/06's and both shoot under 1/2 "@ 100yds with 117 Hornady SBT  CCI 200 primers.... Both are Remington 700's.  Got loads from the Nosler Reloading book #4..   IMR 4350 Fed. 210 primers Nosler 100 Bal. Tip...(.421..center to center)  Also H4831 turned some good loads for me with the 117's......Don't know why, But never got real crazy great loads with Reloader 15, 19, or 22...however I keep trying..I just keep finding something better....    Noleman

[Grumulkin]

I use RL-22 with Berger 115 gr. VLDs in my Encore 25/06; the accuracy is deadly.  I believe my barrel twist is 1:10; what's yours?  If the twist is too slow like 1:12, you probably won't be able to get heavier/longer bullets to stabilize.

[pjeffreys]

no the groups are not as bad as 6" at 100 yds. they are more like 1.5" to 2" at 100 yds. i checked the twist rate on the web and the ruger 77's have a twist rate of 1 in 10. i started with a light load from the sierra manual and worked my way up to there max with no pressure signs. i then looked in my hornady manual and there max load for the same powder and bullet weight was substantially higher, so i am still working my way up. the groups are pretty consistant in that two out of a four shot group will be close or touching but the other two can be as much as two inches off. my method of shooting is i use a lead sled from a bench and wait ten minutes between shots. i use a kitchen timer to insure the time limit. i clean the barrel after every 12 to 16 shots. however i do not clean the barrel until i get a clean patch. this is because i fire a fouling round before i start testing loads. i have not had any mechanical problems with the rifle and it has a timney trigger in it. the gun is sound i think it is the powder bullet combination. the cases are all necked sized but not full length sized to insure fire formed cases. the bullets are all seated .03" off the lands. what else can i try?

[jhalcott]

  the ruger can be a finicky rifle! I do not use R22 in mine .it prefers 4350 and 4831. a change to 120 or even 100 grain bullets MAY help with the accuracy. I put a thin piece of inner tube under the  barrel ,between it and the fore arm. This puts a little up pressure on the barrel. Groups shrank below an inch with most bullets. The bolt that pulls the action down and back can also be a problem. IF the 2 shots that touch are the 1st and 2nd tried,then you get 2 flyers, you MAY have developed a flinch. Get a "sissy" bag to put between the but and your shoulder. PAST makes a shoulder pad for this also. A "lead sled" will also help to find an accurate load. They are NOT really transportable for hunting though!

[LaOtto222]

You have gotten some good advice from some folks already - You are not way off, some tuning of your loads or the gun may be all you need. Is your barrel fully floated? If not try doing that. If it is try to put some up pressure at the fore end tip. Remember a flinch can be developed by the sound as well as recoil. 25.06's can be quite loud. Double check your mounts and rings to make sure they are tight. Some guns can shoot great right out of the box, some need some TLC to get them to shoot well. It also can be frustrating trying to find the load combination that works great. When you do hit that right combination you really get a sense of satisfaction. Keep trying different things, you will get it.

[Luckyducker]

I have a tang saftey M77 in 25/06 that will shoot extremely well with Speer 120 grain SPBT bullets and 50.5 grains of IMR4350 powder lit with CCI #200 primers.  Every load I tried before this wouldn't give under 1.5" groups at 100', and some were worse than that.  You should work up slowly and find where your rifle shoots the best groups and watch for any signs of excessive pressure.  I don't have the COAL written down for this load but I usually seat the bullets .010" from the lands when using standard jacketed bullets.

[Lone Star]

While the popular urban fantasy is that every rifle will shoot sub-moa with the right handloads, the reality is that many rifles just never will.  The .25-06 is an excellent game hunting cartridge and 1.5 moa is good accuracy for any big game shooting.  Heck, for most varmint hunters that is enough for 'chucks. 

What size groups do you get from your other CF rifles?  Ruger barrels are not noted for exceptional accuracy, some shoot very well but others do not.  There is no reason not to try to improve your rifle's accuracy through handloading, that's part of the fun.  But if you never get groups smaller than 1.5 moa, don't be too surprised.


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[jhalcott]

 I hesitate to tell anyone NOT to seek smaller loads. The truth is as Lone Star said, MOST factory guns will not get sub inch groups. Try shooting at 200 or even 300 yards at a deer target, the kind bow hunters use. It might surprise you to find out you have MORE than enough accuracy for deer and varmints already!
  The 25-06 is a high pressure round and the constant search for a tiny grouping load MAY just wear out the barrel sooner! You tend to frustrate your self and build a sense of worrying WHERE the bullet will hit. Just knowing that you WILL hit the vitals is beneficial!

[the jigger]

Try IMR4831 and 100gr Nosler Partitions. Try 51.5gr and work up in .5gr increments . I have found my best accuracy at .5gr below max.

[SHOOTALL]

MY LOAD IS 53 GR. 4831 WITH 100 GR NOSLER BT ,

[Lloyd Smale]

hate to say it but in my experience if you cant work up a load with a 117 sierra in any 25 cal rifle that is good enough for you your probably not going to ever get it there.

[Masterblaster1]

My load is a light one, 39.5 grains of IMR 4064, CCI LR primer, w-w super brass, 120 grain speer hot-cor. Gun is a NEF single shot, sub1.5" groups at 100 yards

[wild willy]

My Ruger #1 does not like R19 or R22 best groups with IMR 4350 or H4831 Does not like Hornady 117 or Nosler 110 accubond Does like sierra 87 and 100 likes Nosler 100 BT and 115 BT I tried many different powders and loads with the Accubonds shoots .75+ bigger groups than with 100 and 115 grain bullets. Really wanted to use them. Rifle shoots 1.0 to 1.25 five shot groups with others average not best there is a differance

[Steve P]

I will not mention loads.  There are some good ones already mentioned above and I don't have mine where they should be yet.  I will give a few hints based on some of the comments made:

My brass is all trimmed to same length and is same lot number.  You are doing good using the fireformed brass and neck sizing.  How is your trim length? Primer seating?
 
I seat my bullets about .008 -.010" from the lands.  .03" is a pretty good jump.  If the magazine in your Ruger allows it, seat your bullets out a little bit more. 

I have several Ruger Model 77s and they rest in a heated room with a humidifier.  I do NOT clean them religiously. (I am not saying they are dirty and grimey as they are NOT.) In fact NONE of my guns get the bore cleaned after 12-16 shots.  Most of mine don't start shooting well until I have seasoned the bore with a couple of boxes (40 rounds) of ammo.  I will not shoot my .22LRs for groups until they have minimum of 10 shots with the trial ammo down the bore.  A couple of weeks ago I pulled out my hunting rifles to get them ready.  I noticed a little dust on them so I did wipe them down good and ran a few patches down the bores.  I was nearly thru with my first box (20 shots) before my 6.5x55 started touching shots consistently at 100.  Is it me calming down or the seasoning of the bore?  I don't know, but that is when it started to group.  My .243 WSSM was shooting cloverleafs from the start, but they were in the wrong place on the target.  I made a few minor adjustments and was about 12-15 shots into it when 5 shot groups closed to coin sizes.

Put away the cleaning rod and let those accubond season the bore good.  See how the groups tighten up.  My shots above were with Nosler Partitions.  I am a solid believer in leaving the bore alone until the dirt takes away from the accuracy.  Some target barrels that is a few shots.  Most of my competition handguns it is many hundreds of rounds later.  My FA revolvers need a good cleaning after about 250-300 shots.  Only need it then due to soot build up on face of cylinder making it hard to rotate cylinder with tight barrel gap. 

Dont wait 10 minutes between shots.  Your body and brain are forgetting what you were doing and what you are there for.  If I am going to shoot for groups, I usually blast a few shots as plinkers just to get the gun warmed up good.  If I am loading a specific powder /bullet combo, I may load 20 of the starting load and then 10 of each load in succession until I fill a 50 round ammo box.  I shoot about 10 of the starting loads to warm up, let the gun cool off, and then start with 3-5 shot groups with the next trial loads.  If I need to, I go back and shoot a second round of shots to break any ties.  Left over shots get put down the bore at extended ranges or at off hand targets.

You have a hunting rifle and some of the "bench rest" techniques you are using are doing more harm than good. (IMHO)   

Steve

[pjeffreys]

alright guys, i changed bullets and powder. i am now using IMR 4831 with 110 grain accubonds. i have tried 49 and 50 grains of powder with similar results. the first and third shots touch and the second and fourth shots are about and inch to 1.5 inches off. i think this is a bullet weight/barrel twist problem. what do y'all think. i am shooting with hearing protection. i don't think i ever answered that question.

[rdh]

I have a browning 25/06 with boss and it will shoot everything from 85gr bt to 117gr hornady sst . I just tried some 110gr accubonds with rl-19 and imr 4831 the rl19 gave stringing shots from side to side while the 4831 gave a nice glover leaf group so I am going to load about 25round and play with the boss a little. I love shooitng and hunting with this gun just trying to get away from the 100gr and 115 gr nosler bt as I have had some issues with them. I am pleaded so far with the accubond. The only thing that bothers me with the 25/06 is high velocity and close range thats why I am getting away from the bt.   


I have a ruger m77 mkII 270 ultra light I am having the same grouping problems you described with you 25/06. The gun will shoot but about two years ago I called ruger to get a synthetic stock for it since it was a ultra light there were no aftermarkets for it. I put the wood stock back on and noticed that the foreend was not free floated about the last two inches and the synthetic stock is and after one of the others comments about a little up pressure on the barrel that maybe why it wont group with the synthetic stock on it. I have not shot since the stock swap but will this weekend. Hope this may help

[pjeffreys]

rdh let me know if it helps. i may have to try that.