Another "what are your preferences" question

[handgunhuntr]

In a 15" barrel, talking about deer, bear, elk out to about 125 yards, would you choose the 308 win or the 45-70 Gov. and why?

[KYODE]

i have a 15" 7-08, so that kinnda answers the question for me. i wouldn't mind having a 45-70, and it's a fine caliber. as my first choice, i'd take the .308. with those powerful rifle calibers, you are not limited. you can  take longer shots if you ever need or want to, skills permiting.
if i decided 125 yards was the most i ever wanted to shoot, if i hunted an area that never gave more open shots, if for some reason, i had a special liking to the 45-70, i'd get it.
i've never shot a 45-70 in these guns. what kinnda accuracy can one expect? a bottleneck round can possibly shoot less than 1" at 100 from a bench with handloads.
some states(ohio for sure) restrict handgun calbers to a straight wall case. 45-70 would be a possible first choice in that case.
get one of each, and you'll be set up great. :grin:  but then you may want a nice little varmint caliber. they should go ahead and make it a law, three barrel minimum.

[SD Handgunner]

I assume you are refering to an Encore. If that is the case I would think a .358 Winchester would provide the right combination of Bullet Weight, Bullet Construction, Velocity, Frontal Area, and performance for the tasks you outlined. If you were refering to the Contender I would think any of the .358 Caliber wildcats built around the .444 Marlin Brass would suffice.

The main reason I would opt for a .35 Caliber is the selection of bullet weights and styles for the varied tasks you would be using it for. Yes the .308 Winchester would fill the bill nicely, but the .35's would handle Elk with more authority.

Larry

[HBL]

I would pick the 444 marlin over the 45-70, if that was the only choice I had. But as stated above the 358JDJ, 358BELLM or any other combination thereof would be a good choice also.

If you are not in to wildcats, the 444 will better choice, IMO. You can also maximize the 444 in the Encore, which I have no plans on doing.

Just a thought, the 44 mag, loaded with 300+ cast bullets would probably get pretty close to these others. The 444 marlin is not much more potent than the 44 mag from what I have seen with loading data and from others I have shot with at the range.

Either one of you choices would be sufficient for your use, it's just whether you want to go with a standard cartridge or a wildcat.

Good Shooting,

HBL

[Steve E]

Given the two choices you put forth I would have to go with the .308. Simply because I can shoot the .308 better.

                                                Steve E.........

[xphunter]

308 WINCHESTER.  Lower recoil, flatter trajectory, add to that excellent bullets for the given type of game are readily available.  For me the 308 is one of the all around cartridge that is more enjoyable for me to shoot.  And, it works all the way down to PD's.
If you are talking brown bear then I will reconsider.
Ernie

[kciH]

One barrel, one load, I'd take the 45-70 to do it all out to 125yds.  Keep in mind that the recoil of the 45-70 is stout.  I don't know what you've been shooting in the past, but I say stout coming from the perspective of a long time magnum handgun shooter.  You really can't go wrong with the .308 for what you listed either, but I think if you want to keep it simple the 45-70 would be the choice.  As far as the why,  I like big bore cartridges.  They make big holes even if the bullet doesn't expand.  At the ranges your talking about you could kill anything that walks with a good cast bullet from a 45-70 Encore with confidence.

[Dave2of5]

.45-70 in the Encore would be outstanding - and very likely the very best 150 yard sledgehammer you could buy. I have a .45-70 in the Contender and it is excellent at these ranges. It is accurate, reliable, versetile and absolutely hard hitting. While the .308 is an excellent cartridge, I believe for the conditions you lined out I personally would opt for the .45-70. I have a great deal of respect for the .45-70.

Dave

[Big Gun]

I would take the 308 Win for the same reasons listed by xphunter.  

[PJ]

:eek: What Big Gun you took the little caliber :eek: I have a 45-70 16 1/4" Encore T/C Custom Shop and love it.I have not shot it much do to hunting going on right now,but it looks to be a shooter.Fist load tested went in to a 1" cluster at 50 yards.I would go with a 45-70 Why...?The bear in Pennsylvania can get REALLY BIG and I would not want to shoot a 400lb+ animal that could bite back with a .308 caliber pistol at moderate bullet speeds.Now the 45-70 with a 350gr-470gr bullet will drop anything that you meet in the woods.

[Ladobe]

Because of the range of animals listed, of the two I'd opt for the 45-70.

Now what I'd do for 125 yards...  for big western mulies: the 6.5 Super Bower or 309JDJ.... for bear: the 375JDJ....  for elk the 309 JDJ or 375JDJ.

[kciH]

Ladobe,
what real performance gain at 125 yds, would any of those rounds have over a 45-70?  I know they're all good rounds, but I don't think any of them would do anything any better, with the exception of pentration with the 375 JDJ, than a 45-70 with a hard cast bullet would do at the modest range involved.

[Ladobe]

Ladobe,
what real performance gain at 125 yds, would any of those rounds have over a 45-70?  I know they're all good rounds, but I don't think any of them would do anything any better, with the exception of pentration with the 375 JDJ, than a 45-70 with a hard cast bullet would do at the modest range involved.

The performance gain with any of them would be quite massive over a 45-70 in 'MY' case..... I have a 6.5 SB, two 309JDJ's and two 375JDJ's, but I don't have a 45-70!    :wink:   (that's why I said "what I'd do").    

[kciH]

Ladobe,
fair enough.  If you did have the 45-70, or 450 Marlin, and your range was limited to 125yds, and you had tolerance for BIG recoil, what would be your choice for anything you'd encounter in North America?  I mean just to keep it simple, one barrel and one load for anything you might encounter.  I like to play with different calibers too, I'd probably take the 35/284 or 350Mag for personal use.  They both shoot flat enough and have enough energy to get it done as far as I can do it.  I think the 45-70 would be pretty hard to beat at this closer range, it has all the subtlety and characteristics of what it is: a sledgehammer.

[Big Gun]

Yeah PJ, I took the smaller one - in all honesty I believe the question is kind of a trick question.  I like to shoot the 308 more than the 45-70 - and at 125 yds it is not going to matter much which you choose the critter will likely go down - using a good heavy expanding / weight retention bullet for the 30 cal like a partition, or fail safe, or Barnes X - the hole size would probably be similar to that of the 45-70 with some of the more penetrating but slower, less expanding bullets.  Where the 308 really outshines the 45-70 is beyond the 125 yd mark - this is where many of the shots get taken where I hunt the most.  In all fairness to you 45-70 fans, I do have 2 Contender barrels in 45-70 and I have not taken the time to work with them much to see what level of performance I could get to.

Finally, I am with kciH on the idea that neither of these callibers is exactly what I would go for.  I really like the choice of 350 Rem Mag, would also consider the 375 H&H Mag - especially if we are including big Alaskan bears in the "anything in North America" category.

[Ladobe]

Ladobe,
fair enough.  If you did have the 45-70, or 450 Marlin, and your range was limited to 125yds, and you had tolerance for BIG recoil, what would be your choice for anything you'd encounter in North America?  I mean just to keep it simple, one barrel and one load for anything you might encounter.  I like to play with different calibers too, I'd probably take the 35/284 or 350Mag for personal use.  They both shoot flat enough and have enough energy to get it done as far as I can do it.  I think the 45-70 would be pretty hard to beat at this closer range, it has all the subtlety and characteristics of what it is: a sledgehammer.

kciH,
Well, I only have limited experience with the 45-70 (and that was with a couple of rifles), and none with the 450 Marlin, so I would only be able to go by what the data says for these two.    However, for anything in North America, my choice would still be the 375JDJ.   A 300 grain pill popping along at 1900+ or a 270 at 2000+ will get the job done in spades and I think qualifies as a 'sledgehammer' as well.   The 375 also shoots a might 'flatter' than the 45's  :wink:   and for a hell of a lot farther if need be.   JD goes one better and says the 375JDJ is enough for anything that walks the face of the earth.   He's done the African thing alot for 3 decades and taken the big boys with it, so its my guess its not all hype.   I still have a picture he sent me sometime in the late 70's or early 80's of the first elephant he shot with one - a single frontal brain shot - the bullet was retrieved at the base of the neck.   As for the "BIG recoil" thing... IMO the 375JDJ is very manageable which translates to good shot placement.    Its not unusual for me to shoot 100 rounds on a trip to the range with the 375's, but then, I've been a 'handcannon' freak for years and have quite a few of them that get shot often (and mostly one-handed).

[kciH]

Ladobe,
thanks for the insight on the .375JDJ, it's been the baddest thing you could fit into a TC until the Encore came out as far as I know.  I think that the 45-70 can be loaded to 450 Marlin pressures, making it a 450 Marlin, in the Encore.  It would be a heck of around, but it will never shoot as flat, or have the long range punch that the .375 JDJ does.