Christian vote for Obama?

[BBF]

I am trying to recall something about the Israeli's using women in combat positions. If I recall (dimly) it turned out to be not such a good idea and they backed of on it. I am  NOT saying they do not have femal pilots in combat aircraft but seem to have changed their mind on crew served vehicle etc.

[ironglow]

  The Israelis tried it..and have changed their minds, no longer allowing it, our Army has yet to learn. Although I am an Army vet, I believe the Marines have the better way of handling the situation. Women Marines train (boot) seperately and are not expected to servce side-by-side in direct combat.
  Frankly, I think the Army did the job much better when they had the WACS..they got opportunities but still not normally the hand to hand stuff.
    Much of the trouble with women in combat comes from the men, rather than any shortcoming of the women. When a fellow infantryman is wounded, a soldier can call for the medic/corpsman and split..carrying on with his duties after providing simple, necessary care till the medic arrives. The Israelis found that with a wounded female, fellow infantrymen seemed to be a bit too concerned  ..interrupting their duties. I have to admit that for me, having a screaming, wounded female on my hands would perhaps be a bit more distressing than with a man.

[kevthebassman]

I'm none too keen on using wikipedia as a source, but this is what they have to say:

Women

Israel has female conscription, but about a third of female conscripts (more than double the figure for men) are exempted, mainly for religious and nuptial reasons.

Following their active service, women, like men, are in theory required to serve up to one month annually in reserve duty. However, in practice only some women in combat roles get called for active reserve duty, and only for a few years following their active service, with many exit points (e.g., pregnancy).

Apart from the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, when manpower shortages saw many of them taking active part in battles on the ground, women were historically barred from battle in the IDF, serving in a variety of technical and administrative support roles. During this period the IDF utilized female instructors for training male soldiers in certain roles, particularly tank crews.

After a landmark 1994 High Court appeal by Alice Miller, a Jewish immigrant from South Africa, the Air Force was instructed to open its pilots course to women. Miller failed the entrance exams, but since her initiative, many additional combat roles were opened.[6] As of 2005, women are allowed to serve in 83% of all positions in the military, including Shipboard Navy Service (except submarines), and Artillery. Combat roles are voluntary for women.

As of 2002, 33% of lower rank officers are women, 21% of Captains and Majors, and 3% of the most senior ranks.

450 women currently serve in combat units of Israel's security forces, primarily in the Border Police. Yael Rom, the first female pilot in the Israeli Air Force earned her wings in 1951.[7] The first female jet fighter pilot, Roni Zuckerman, received her wings in 2001.[7] In November 2007 the first woman was appointed to the rank of deputy squadron commander.[8]

Women serve in combat support and light combat roles in the Artillery Corps, infantry units and armored divisions. A few platoons, named Karakal, were formed, in which men and women serve together in light infantry on the borders with Egypt and Jordan. Karakal became a brigade in 2004.[6]

The IDF abolished its "Women's Corps" command in 2001, with a view that it had become an anachronism and a stumbling block towards integration of women in the army as regular soldiers with no special status. However, after pressures from feminist lobbies, The Chief of Staff was persuaded to keep an "adviser for women's affairs". Female soldiers now fall under the authority of individual units based on jobs and not on gender. The 2006 Lebanon War was the first time since 1948 that women were involved in field operations alongside men. Airborne helicopter engineer Sergeant-Major (res.) Keren Tendler became the first female combat soldier to be killed in action.[6]

[ironglow]

 A  couple other references, a bit dated but from a site that is credible  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23886

       http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35170

   By combat, I meant the "heavy lifting" type combat..such as required in airborne, infantry, special ops..etc.  Pilot or chopper pilot may be a different thing. Frankly; in a nation like ours, where we have an abundance of young men enjoying the fruits of freedom that others before them have suffered and died for, there should be no need for women to serve in combat for such "men"..

[kevthebassman]

World net daily is full of crap.

Want good examples of women holding their own in combat?  Russian snipers.  There was a woman, who's name escapes me now, who had over 300 confirmed kills.  Now, the Soviets were known to exaggerate the accomplishments of their heroes, but given the brutal nature of the war between Russia and Germany, I think it's safe to assume that she pulled the trigger on more than her fair share of Germans.

Russian women served in infantry combat roles.  There is no denying that.  Now, not having been an infantryman in the Soviet army, I cannot say whether or not they were a detriment in combat.

[Skunk]

Why would women have to serve in a combat role in the first place? There are plenty of jobs in the military that are non-combat specific and that currently out of necessity are being performed by men or private contractors. Drafted women could easily do those jobs which would free up more men for combat duties, increase the military's number of soldiers, and save the government money by not having to pay private contractors the huge prices.

[ironglow]

 Kev;
   I'm not going to debate the point with you, that would be simply too elementery and juvenile. I know that women have served well in combat, without going back to the Amazons and their mastectomies. The question had come down to whether women now serve as combat functionaries in the IDF, so I provided what I consider to be a more credible source than Wiki. 
 
  Perhaps Rush was right in suggesting the 1st women's PMS brigade..

  Skunk;
        Thanks, you reinforce what I have already stated. namely that the old method of having women serve in the non-combat, very necessary work such as the old WACS did, seems more logical than the way the Army does it these days. From what I have seen, in order to accomodate the women..the Army has cut back on their speed marches, PT and other strenuous things. If they trained men & women seperately, the men could be driven to their potential and the women need not lose any of the ever necessary (by today's standards)
"self-esteem". Perhaps then, today's soldier trainees would not need a "time out" card to flash (the enemy pays no heed to "time out" cards).
    In our country today, there is no reason as I see it that women should be required to serve in combat roles; we're not a Communist nation......not before Nov 4th anyway...   

[kevthebassman]

  Perhaps Rush was right in suggesting the 1st women's PMS brigade..

Now THAT is scary!