45/70 mold

[Tad Houston]

Hello Veral, I will be picking up a new Marlin 1895 guide gun in 45/70 next week, and want to hunt hogs with cast bullets. I have a chance to pick up a used LBT mold number 460 400 M in excellent condition. Would this work well for me, or should I order custom from your website after slugging the throat? Is this a WFN or a LFN mold? He says it throws a 385gr bullet, and is a GC mold. Also, is there anywhere I can find a picture of this bullet?

Thanks, Tad

[Veral]

  The 45 M or Marlin bullet is designed specifically for the Marlin 45-70, and probably at least 95% of 45-70's out there shoot 460 diameter bullets best.  This because they fill the chambers, which prevents the bullets from tipping.  Jump on the mold you are looking at.  If you are lucky and have a gun with chamber too tight for .460, just size .oo1 or .002 off and you have a perfect fit.
  My website has a line drawing of the M bullet,  I believe,  LBTMoulds.com

  It has a longer ogive and smaller meplat than the LFN, and wears a crimp groove which has never failed to work in Marlin guns.   I guess!  Nobody has ever told me they've had a problem!
  With the meplat being a little smaller than the LFN, wound diameter is slightly smaller than with an LFN at equal speed, but it will easily give you the max displacement velocity which I recommend, especially with the fairly light 285 grains, which can be driven at real nice speeds without recoil becoming a hassle.

[Tad Houston]

Thanks!

[Tad Houston]

Another question is when I  get my brand new guide gun, should I "break it in" with jacketed bullets to smooth out the bore, or just clean it real good and start right off with cast bullets?

Also, if the .460 unsized bullet in a case chambers, should I be safe and good to go?

Thanks again!

[COR]

My Guide Gun I got a couple of years ago shot fine with cast straight out of the box.  I'd shoot it first and see.  Don't forget about Verals Lapping Kit, that will save you some money over shooting a bunch of jacketed bullets...but of course you won't have the same fun you will shooting those bullets.  The one thing that helps when transitioning from jacketed to the lead is being sure you have a jacketed free bore...I do this buy running a jag wrapped with "chore boy" scouring pads strands wrapped around it.  Be sure you buy the gold stuff as it will not harm your bore.  You then start with a "clean" bore to begin your loads.  I'll be interested to hear Verals opinion on the need for this but it seems to work. 

If you don't buy that mold I'd purchase it (pm me if you don't), Verals molds make rookie casters like myself look like old pros, they are great to work with, you certainly won't be disappointed. Mine also happens to like them sized at .460 as Veral stated.  A 350gr at 1400fps will go clean through a 250lb hog (and larger) and is easy on the shoulder, in fact I'd chase anything in the lower 48 with that load.  The GG is a great handing package too that can be loaded to kill anything that walks.

[Veral]

  My advise regarding jacketed use:  Jacketed bullets are made of a metal which gives minimum, read that, almost no bore wear.  You won't smooth up a barrel with them unless you shoot maybe a thousand with hot loads, and even then the smoothing will only be enough to help cast a little.  They will not straighten out a bore with varying dimensions internally.  Lapping does it quickly, and my push through slugs will tell you how much you have to lap ahead of time, show you how you are progressing and when you are done.

  The Marlin 45-70's appear to be the hottest selling guns in the USA if my mold sales are an indicator, and Marlin makes them knowing that the majority of users want them to shoot cast with.  So they put super quality barrels on the.  It will probably shoot great with cast out of the box, but noticably greater if you lap it from the git go.

  Unlike jacketed bullets, tight chambering cast do not creat high pressure problems.  In fact any STOUT cast load with enough pressure to obturate the bullet well, is a tight chamber fit before it ever starts moving from the case.  Get close as you can before the primer pops and there will be less obturation to deform the bullet and hurt accuracy.

[S.B.]

What do you call the 460 400 M on your website? Where is it's picture  located, I don't seem to be able to find it's location?
TIA, Steve

[Veral]

  I've never taken a photo of it, so there is no picture, but in my printed catalog I have a line drawing which shows the exact profile.  Keep in mind that with all the bullet photos on the website, they are to show the nose form accurately, but the body and lube groove/ drive band arrangement will vary with bullet weight, and whether gc or pb.  Same for the M bullet.

  I hate to say it, but I had a very trusted man put the website together and have never actually gone over it completely to sort out any errors, and there are quite a few, of coarse, as he is human.
  I expect the M bullet would be listed under a levergun listing, which is how I have it in the printed catalog.

  Since my schedule is to tight, I don't have time to go over the website or even look to see if the M bullet was perhaps overlooked by the typesetter.  If you don't find it, please email me, give your mailing address  and ask for a printed catalog.  We'll be glad to mail one to anyone requesting it.

[S.B.]

Is your printed catalog the yellow sheets that came with my molds, from you? If so, I just went through it and didn't see any m bullets in the rifle sections. My email is in my profile here. I would appreciate a photo of these, please?
TIA, Steve

[Veral]

  Yes, you have our printed catalog.  Look to the left of the levergun section where there are two line drawings, which is all I have.  The 458-400-M is the one we are talking about.  It looks blunter than it actually is, as the meplat is somewhat smaller than the LFN, (or LCFN drawing beside it). and the ogive considerably longer.  It has a very high B.C. compared to most 45 70 bullets available, yet gives excellent killing punch.

[S.B.]

OK, my copy shows about 2/3 of your line drawing. You say this is available in 450-500 grain design and if I wanted one for .30 caliber and one for.35 caliber would I just replace the first set of numbers with the appropriate caliber sizes(.310/.358/.458) or would your shop automatically measure the throat slugs sent and make the right size bullet molds? Would I need to specify they'll be for a Marlin or lever gun? Do your M molds work for Winchesters also? I've ordered your throat slugging kits for .30, .35 and .45 and will slug appropriate rifles(whether Marlin or Winchester). I'm thinking gas checks would work better in this application, are these molds available either way(pb or gc)?  I hunt with my lever guns. Sorry for my ignorance but, I really would like to do this right the first time around.
Thanks, Steve

[Veral]

  Yes we measure the throat slugs and make a bullet that will fit your rifle.  Normally I write a short note with suggestions on how to get a proper fit and any other information I think may be important.
  Always specify the type of gun as it is often important, and gas checks are mandatory for good hunting power in calibers to 35.  45 caliber can deliver very good hunting power using plainbase bullets, but you may want to use gas checks in it also, if you want to use a relitively light bullet at high power.