Author Topic: California Blacktail  (Read 1357 times)

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Offline DRM

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California Blacktail
« on: September 27, 2008, 10:17:06 PM »


Love to handgun hunt....10" Contender, 7-30 Waters, 85 yards with a 120gn Nosler BT.

Offline Cottonwood

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 12:57:57 AM »
Nice, now what part of California did you take the blacktail in, and did it drop with the shot or take off then drop..... we like the stories behind the hunt.

Offline DRM

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 08:22:33 AM »
The story......I took him up in Mendocino county outside of Boonville.  If your are not from California then you will be surprised how early we hunt.  For A Zone where I hunt, archery starts in July and the general rifle season starts mid August and goes to Mid September.  Needless to say it is generally very hot during most of the season.  Well....it was the last weekend of the season and there was a very unusual and brief low pressure system that came through.  For about 8 hours the temp dropped and their was a light drizzle and the deer started moving around, bucks on he heals of does.  It was just about 4:00pm and I was working the edge of a large meadow.  As I came around a tree I saw a doe out at 85 yards moving right to left past a 15 yard break in a group of small trees and brush.  First one doe then a second....both obviously trotting away from something.  I set my Contender on my shooting sticks and watched the action through my scope.....a third doe came trotting by with a 3x3 buck 4 ft behind her with his nose close to the ground.  He was passing through the 15 yard gap quickly and at that distance I was not going to get him to stop, so just as he was about to step behind a small tree I dropped the hammer and he dropped immediately.  When I was able to get my sight picture back after the recoil I could see just his hind legs, his momentum from the trot carried him about a step or two behind the small tree. 

Now the wound you see in the picture was my second (put him out) shot.  The first shot actually hit the spine just behind the left shoulder and angle out at spine level above the right shoulder.  The deer dropped but was very much alive when I got to him. The second shot was at about 1 foot........which brings up a good topic of discussion.........for me I have very rarely walk up to an animal who is not already dead or dies in very short order.  I can't remember the last time I had to put a finishing shot on an animal.  For me the obvious issues are that a finishing shot at close range are generally very destructive to meat.  At that moment my shot placement seemed to be the least destructive to meat but in an area with lots of blood vessels, and he did bleed out and die very quickly after the second shot.........were would you put the killing shot if you had the deer in front of you?

Offline Cottonwood

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 10:21:01 AM »
DRM I know Northern Californa well, was raised in the East Bay and before moving to Montana my wife and I lived in Pioneer, Ca which is 20 miles from Jackson on Hwy 88.  The hunting season in California amazes me that it's not more into Oct/Nov.

Well you done good and thank you for the story behind the hunt.

Offline .357 shooter

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 12:55:49 PM »
DRM:

Very nice buck. Great shooting.



Bryan

New York State! Home of high Taxes......

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 06:32:42 PM »
California try's to set the hunt to avoid the rut, and the winter storms what trigger the migration in many zones.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

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Offline Cottonwood

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 01:42:15 AM »
California try's to set the hunt to avoid the rut, and the winter storms what trigger the migration in many zones.

Somebody at the top of the California DNRC needs their heads examined for proper deer management.

JMHO

Offline hoggunner

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 02:43:07 AM »
I would go for a heart shot to finish off and animal.

Offline Freezer

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 07:51:03 AM »
   I made a similar shot last year at 200 yards.  I finished him with a heart/lung shot, behind the shoulder and slightly low of center.  Nice buck!  Do you hunt the B zone also?  Too bad they won't let us harvest a few doe, I see at least 20 doe to every buck.  If you get interested PM me.

Offline Dr. A

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 06:33:15 AM »
Do blacktails not usually have brow tines?

Offline lastchanc54

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 06:54:50 AM »
You asked for an opinion on the kill shot when a deer is on the ground. I like to sever the first vertebrae at the base of the skull. The kill is immediate and I don't lose any meat. For the least amount of suffering and least amount of meat loss, the upper spine is my choice. Whenever possible, I like this shot for my first round. I killed a black bear in a tree with my 270 by shooting it 2 inches below the base of the skull. The bear never knew what hit it. That kill was so fast that it was like turning off a light bulb. On a moving animal of course, shoulder/lung area is always the biggest target area. Nothing anchors like a upper vertebrae shot when you can.
I am sure that other shooters have discovered how effective a bullet at the base of the skull is.
Good luck

Offline S.B.

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 12:04:47 PM »
Congratulations. Great job.
Steve
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Offline blhof

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 03:33:47 PM »
I 2nd the base of the skull shot.  I too shot a deer a few years ago with a slug in a shotgun restricted area.  The shot was high and severed the spine, but the front half was very much alive, so when close enough for an accurate shot I finished it with a base of the skull shot and instant lights out and no significant meat loss.  Congrats on a nice deer.

Offline kiddekop

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2008, 01:14:14 AM »
California try's to set the hunt to avoid the rut, and the winter storms what trigger the migration in many zones.
The B zone I've hunted for 37 yrs had trophy blacktails in the 1960's & 1970's but now w/o management it's an opportunity 2 buck zone where a hunter can shoot a forkie if one can locate one in a season that used to be open into November but now closes the  middle of October.I've heard the comments from locals & game dept personnel that they don't want hunters killing' their deer'. F&G has the Private Land Mgt program for property owners who do some game improvements on their property then they're given tags to sell for whatever a hunter is willing to pay to hunt late in the  season for trophy animals the rest of the license paying hunters are denied access to.

Offline Freezer

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 06:00:33 AM »
    It's a real shame they don't manage the herds better.  This year I saw at least 12 doe per day with and on one day I saw 31.  I wish they would have a 3x3 minimun and let us take one doe.  As restricted as the zones are it wouldn't be a problem to control the number of doe tags in a given zone.

Offline kiddekop

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 11:59:38 AM »
    It's a real shame they don't manage the herds better.  This year I saw at least 12 doe per day with and on one day I saw 31.  I wish they would have a 3x3 minimun and let us take one doe.  As restricted as the zones are it wouldn't be a problem to control the number of doe tags in a given zone.
You're Right; the best managed deer herds allow doe hunting to remove dry does and get the buck to doe ratio down to 7 or less per buck for healthier animals.In this state the boards of stupidvisors with zero game mgt training always have the last say denying doe hunts so ca plods on with zero mgt.Last year in Siskiyou Co north of Fort Jones we camped in Indian Scotty Campground with only 2 other sites(we've been going there since 1970 with lots of hunters) in use saw lots of does and very few fawns or  yearlings,didn't see any antlered deer,no grouse,mtn quail but there were lots of grey squirrels.A game warden said buck count was very low.CA Dept of F&G does to zero mgt in the B zone. so we left early returning home.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 06:30:29 PM »
I am sure there are a lot of Deer Management experts in the State.  At one time the State was divided into two Zones and you could buy two tags over the counter in one shot.  The hunter received an A tag and a B tag. 

The Eastside was covered by the “B” tag only and a hunter could use both an “A” and or a “B” tag on the Westside of Highway 99.

There had been a number of doe hunts before the big statewide doe hunt the last three days of the 1956. 

Even before I was old enough to buy a deer tag I was a “tag-along” with my dad, and his hunting partners.  Without a doubt I absorbed many of their opinions.  I cannot remember the closing dates in 1956 but I recall the last three days we could fill our “B” tag with a doe if we choose.  The decision had been made in our group that nobody would take a doe.  I believe with the large doe herd it was felt that they did not offer a challenge.

The shock came before daylight during that three-day hunt.  We were hunting in the “B Zone” and numbers of hunters out number the hunters seen on opening weekend.  We had hike up to a lava ridge using flashlights to get in position when daylight appeared.  It was cold and wet.  There was more then a foot of wet snow on the ground.  We decided it was a good tracking snow. 

A few scattered shots were heard well before legal shooting time.  A few herds of does and fawns appeared with the first legal light, and it sounded like a war zone.  Some hunters opened up on a bunch of does and fawns between us, showing no regard for our safety.  Dad made me take cover in the rocks.  Carnage followed and we spotted two or three cripples in the area, and a least one unclaimed kill.  It was like a house cat finding a bunch of mice. 

When we got back down to our vehicle there was a group loading does into a trailer.  We felt the kills were the result of the early shots because they were already cold and stiffing up.  The license plates on the tow vehicle and trailer appeared to be out of County.

From the shock in the County the scene must have been repeated a number of times.  The biggest issues to come out of the three day hunt to start with was hunter safety, and the decimation of the doe, and fawn population.  I believe the biggest impact was in the old “B Zone” deer herd.  They were easier to get to, and the mule deer in general were much larger then the Westside blacktail. (The old “B Zone” is currently broke up into X zones and C zones.)

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/publications/tracks/tracksbiggame2002.pdf

While the F&G gives credit to the doe hunt for a large deer kill the next few years, I in part challenge this assumption, and credit must be given where credit is due. In the fall of 1955 a dry lightning storm developed over the Shasta-Trinity National Forest (S-T) starting numerous fires on the S-T, moving North on to the Klamath National Forest (KNF), and then continuing on into Southern Oregon.  A few of the notable large fires started near Carter Meadows on the South end of Siskiyou County, then the major fire that burned in the Kidder Creek drainage, as it moved Northward the Haystack fire was started, then just before the storm left California it started a major fire on Sterling Mountain.  There were other large fires that I cannot recall the names off.

A few hundred thousand acres went up in smoke the next eight weeks.  They brought in soldiers from Fort Lewis, Washington, Fort Ord, California, and Camp Roberts California to help fight the fires.

Within a few weeks after the fires were contained the areas that had brush in them were sprouting new growth from the root bowls.  Deer love those young tender sprouts and thrived on them.  By the next spring the burns were producing a lot of young tender brush that could support a lot of deer.  The new growth was plentiful and high in nutrition.  The deer herd prospered and hunters filled their tags.  When the F&G held a few doe hunts they could not sell all the tags.

A political backlash grew from the 1956 doe hunt.  The mass killing of does and fawns upset a lot of hunters.  And mixed in the issue was the safety concerns.  The indiscriminate shooting caused a lot of concerns.

Not far South of Fort Jones near the Eastside Road a doe hunt was held.  A friend of mine and her husband arrived at home after going to town one weekend.  They found their home had been broken into and a woman was bleeding on their floor.  The woman hand been taking part in the doe hunt and had suffered a gunshot wound to the breast.  Without a doubt this event had a lasting effect on their household.

The board of supervisors in Siskiyou County was made up primarily of ranchers, and timber men.  As a result of the 1956 doe hunt Siskiyou County joined the majority of other counties in the State to get legislation passed which gave veto authority to County boards of supervisors over doe hunts. 

Placing the blame on the F&G for the lack of doe hunts is missed placed.  The county board of supervisors can veto any doe hunt the F&G proposes.  Secondary blame falls on the hunting community for the conduct displayed by a few in 1956.  The perception then and today was City Slickers caused the majority of problems.  I am sure that a review of firearm related hunting accidents in the County would show the majority involved were not residents. 

Burns normally mature in approximately fifteen years.  Humbug a noted deer factory within the Haystack burn has dried up because the brush matured, or forestry practices.  Poaching has always been a problem but with the expansion of marijuana gardens in the county has resulted in many deer being converted to tacos. 

The growing Mt. Lion populations translates into fewer deer.

The black bear population has expanded the last few years.  Fawns are a major food source for bears.  A freind reports seeing a bear kill at least two deer in the fields South of Fort Jones.

I have always wondered how the Spotted Owl issue impacted the decline of the deer herd.  Fewer clearcuts, fewer deer.  ::)






 
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Offline kiddekop

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Re: California Blacktail
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2008, 05:37:23 PM »
I am sure there are a lot of Deer Management experts in the State.  At one time the State was divided into two Zones and you could buy two tags over the counter in one shot.  The hunter received an A tag and a B tag. 

The Eastside was covered by the “B” tag only and a hunter could use both an “A” and or a “B” tag on the Westside of Highway 99.

There had been a number of doe hunts before the big statewide doe hunt the last three days of the 1956. 

Even before I was old enough to buy a deer tag I was a “tag-along” with my dad, and his hunting partners.  Without a doubt I absorbed many of their opinions.  I cannot remember the closing dates in 1956 but I recall the last three days we could fill our “B” tag with a doe if we choose.  The decision had been made in our group that nobody would take a doe.  I believe with the large doe herd it was felt that they did not offer a challenge.

The shock came before daylight during that three-day hunt.  We were hunting in the “B Zone” and numbers of hunters out number the hunters seen on opening weekend.  We had hike up to a lava ridge using flashlights to get in position when daylight appeared.  It was cold and wet.  There was more then a foot of wet snow on the ground.  We decided it was a good tracking snow. 

A few scattered shots were heard well before legal shooting time.  A few herds of does and fawns appeared with the first legal light, and it sounded like a war zone.  Some hunters opened up on a bunch of does and fawns between us, showing no regard for our safety.  Dad made me take cover in the rocks.  Carnage followed and we spotted two or three cripples in the area, and a least one unclaimed kill.  It was like a house cat finding a bunch of mice. 

When we got back down to our vehicle there was a group loading does into a trailer.  We felt the kills were the result of the early shots because they were already cold and stiffing up.  The license plates on the tow vehicle and trailer appeared to be out of County.

From the shock in the County the scene must have been repeated a number of times.  The biggest issues to come out of the three day hunt to start with was hunter safety, and the decimation of the doe, and fawn population.  I believe the biggest impact was in the old “B Zone” deer herd.  They were easier to get to, and the mule deer in general were much larger then the Westside blacktail. (The old “B Zone” is currently broke up into X zones and C zones.)

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/publications/tracks/tracksbiggame2002.pdf

While the F&G gives credit to the doe hunt for a large deer kill the next few years, I in part challenge this assumption, and credit must be given where credit is due. In the fall of 1955 a dry lightning storm developed over the Shasta-Trinity National Forest (S-T) starting numerous fires on the S-T, moving North on to the Klamath National Forest (KNF), and then continuing on into Southern Oregon.  A few of the notable large fires started near Carter Meadows on the South end of Siskiyou County, then the major fire that burned in the Kidder Creek drainage, as it moved Northward the Haystack fire was started, then just before the storm left California it started a major fire on Sterling Mountain.  There were other large fires that I cannot recall the names off.

A few hundred thousand acres went up in smoke the next eight weeks.  They brought in soldiers from Fort Lewis, Washington, Fort Ord, California, and Camp Roberts California to help fight the fires.

Within a few weeks after the fires were contained the areas that had brush in them were sprouting new growth from the root bowls.  Deer love those young tender sprouts and thrived on them.  By the next spring the burns were producing a lot of young tender brush that could support a lot of deer.  The new growth was plentiful and high in nutrition.  The deer herd prospered and hunters filled their tags.  When the F&G held a few doe hunts they could not sell all the tags.

A political backlash grew from the 1956 doe hunt.  The mass killing of does and fawns upset a lot of hunters.  And mixed in the issue was the safety concerns.  The indiscriminate shooting caused a lot of concerns.

Not far South of Fort Jones near the Eastside Road a doe hunt was held.  A friend of mine and her husband arrived at home after going to town one weekend.  They found their home had been broken into and a woman was bleeding on their floor.  The woman hand been taking part in the doe hunt and had suffered a gunshot wound to the breast.  Without a doubt this event had a lasting effect on their household.

The board of supervisors in Siskiyou County was made up primarily of ranchers, and timber men.  As a result of the 1956 doe hunt Siskiyou County joined the majority of other counties in the State to get legislation passed which gave veto authority to County boards of supervisors over doe hunts. 

Placing the blame on the F&G for the lack of doe hunts is missed placed.  The county board of supervisors can veto any doe hunt the F&G proposes.  Secondary blame falls on the hunting community for the conduct displayed by a few in 1956.  The perception then and today was City Slickers caused the majority of problems.  I am sure that a review of firearm related hunting accidents in the County would show the majority involved were not residents. 

Burns normally mature in approximately fifteen years.  Humbug a noted deer factory within the Haystack burn has dried up because the brush matured, or forestry practices.  Poaching has always been a problem but with the expansion of marijuana gardens in the county has resulted in many deer being converted to tacos. 

The growing Mt. Lion populations translates into fewer deer.

The black bear population has expanded the last few years.  Fawns are a major food source for bears.  A freind reports seeing a bear kill at least two deer in the fields South of Fort Jones.

I have always wondered how the Spotted Owl issue impacted the decline of the deer herd.  Fewer clearcuts, fewer deer.  ::)Everything gets screwed up when politicians delve in fields they know zip about like bds of sups on game mgt.They should leave it to the professionals that's what they get paid to do.Lots reasons for deer population decline in Siskiyou Co: home building in the herd wintering areas,forest service policies of spraying & killing all of the browse species just to grow sterile plots of conifers,too much fire control, fires were used to clean & revitalize forests in the past,road kills,predators including the 2 legged variety that go out and kill deer for the entire family that never venture into the fields or forest,unhealthy mature forests with zero browse,Little Game Mgt or Browse Improvement by Game & Fish,USFS,BLM,etc.The spotted owl is the biggest BS perpetrated on the USFS & public.I met a biologist in siskiyou county one day and had a chat with him about the spotted owl (my degree was in wildlife mgt).He told me all of the concern about the owl was a lie, he found them nesting in a park in Pasadena,CA where there never was any first growth trees there were all planted  ornamentals  they weren't endangered or threatened.My daughter had one fly into her chevy headlight breaking it and killing itself in the San Bernardino Mtns.