new guy, new handi, groups like a shotgun

[lowhighlander]

hey all,  bought a handi superlight compact in .223 for my son to hunt with.  have had terrible luck trying to get it to shoot.  i've gone through the faq's and still cant seem to find the answer.  i've floated the fore end,  close the action tight every time,  pull the trigger all the way back,  moved the bag in several locations on the fore end (using a bag with sand fill) ,  tried 55 grain bullets in ballistic and soft points,  and 64 grain power points,  some 55 grain soft point hand loads,  nothing.  this thing will shoot all over the paper and as it warms up it will not hit the target (target about a 12 inch circle).  i've made sure the scope,  base,  and rings are tight,  and it is a quality nikon monarch 2-8 variable,  weaver base,  and leupold rings,  nothing super cheap.  i called the factory and they say it is a 1:9 twist,  which should shoot.  it is an hy # gun,  i think that's 2008.  anyway,  i'm frustrated beyond belief to say the least.  meanwhile i picked up a browning a-bolt .222 and threw a nikon pro staff on it and it shot less than a 1/2 inch 100 yard 3 shot group for me today,  and my son was able to hit well with it to,  so that's what he will take instead for now,  but i really like the little handi for him.  i also shot my hunting rifle today and shot a 3 shot group all touching,  so i don't think it's me,  i can shoot.  anyway,  sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any input.

frank

afterthought- it does have a heavy trigger,  no creep,  and i like a 2-3 pound trigger for hunting,  and i know this could have some effect on my problem,  but i don't think it could be causing this at all.

[cjclemens]

Handi's tend to start shooting better as they break in.  Shoot more, clean the bore often, and you should see the groups tighten up a bit.  Then you'll be able to identify a load that it likes.  I never found a readily available factory load that worked in mine, so I just handload.  Check the FAQ for more info and look through the old posts.  Most of the guys here know handi's inside and out.  I've had mine for about a year and im still learning how to make mine shoot better.

[Default]

LowHigh ,

  I dont have the youth superlight in 223 (243 is the one i got my nephew) I do however have the 223 handy in a bull barrel with the same 1 in 9 twist and it loves the 75 grain hornady TAP ammo ... can cover the 100 yard groups with a penny ... Hornady has bragged that these 75 grain TAPS can put a 200 pound man on the dirt with one shot ....well long story short i found myself making the shot on my 257 pnd wild hog with that hornady offering and i'll be damned if that hog didnt do a bang flop...One and done
 Give those hornadys a try and see if that doesnt help ,all three of my 1 in 9  223 rifles love them ( hell even my mini 1 in 10 does good with them hah)

  Another good option since you reload is a good 68 or 69 grain load .. that what my 1 in 9 AR15 A2 likes the best

   Hope this helps .... Keeps us informed


      Default     

                       P.S. those TAPS arent cheap but then again what quality 223 is these days ..I spend about $18 for a box here in Arkansas and midway has them listed for $19.79

[trotterlg]

If this were my forum I would give you a prize for post number 1,000 about a superlight not shooting.  These things are fickel, no doubt about it, but they are fun and nice feeling rifles.  My thought is that they are good hobby rifles, buy one and see if you can make it work.  I have a couple that do, they are single purpose rifles, small, simple and fun to play with.  When I need a rifle to shoot the first and last shot in the same place every time I take my Savage.  Larry

[lowhighlander]

thanks for the replies,  guess it will turn into a toy and not something my son can count on to shoot animals with.  i like the idea of the 75 grain bullet for the purpose of this being a hunting gun,  and i have a mini as well,  so i may try to order up some and see.  i will spend the money to get my smith to do a trigger job and some on more ammo,  just to give the little guy a chance,  but if these don't help i guess it will be pawn shop bound.  i have thoroughly cleaned the gun and barrel after every session,  some say they shoot better after a lot of rounds.  would it help to buy some cheap stuff and just smoke some rounds through it and then use some good stuff and try to accurize?  thanks again.

frank

[Default]

Low ,

   I would just break the barrel in properly with the plinking fodder .... then try your hand at the more expensive hunting ammo ... Also forgot to mention  ( the other half pointed it out to me haha) that that same 223 rifle and Hornady 75 grainer took her 250 pound texas Dall ram too .....I too liked the idea of the heavier weight 223 rounds ... 75 grains gets it into the lowest weight class of the 243 caliber , and in theory sounded pretty good to me 
  Her ram was supossed to be the guinea pig , Not my Wall hanger hog

 Could not have been more pleasently surprised thou ... BTW if you find you dont have the patientence for the lil gun list it on the Handi classifieds

  I might be in the market for one in the near future


       Default

[LaOtto222]

Some barrels do not like to be clean to shoot well. I do not know why, but there are barrels that actually shoot better dirty. I would start with a clean barrel and as you shoot your rounds, see if the groups tighten up as you go. You may find that indeed it shoots better dirty or it may not. Every gun is different you just have to find what works for it. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Badnews Bob]

Try lighter rounds, could be you don't have the fast twist and have a 1-12 barrell (just speculating) if so they don't like heavy bullets at all. Good luck.

[Gohon]

Before I started pouring ammo down the barrel in the hopes of breaking it in I would check the obvious first and that is the scope.  Even high quality scopes can have something work loose inside that causes a shift in poi from recoil.  For a 223 to shoot lousy 2, 3, and 4 inch groups is one thing but to completely move off a 12 inch target after several shots really does sound like a sighting system problem to me.  Just my opinion.

As an afterthought, does the scope base extend out over the barrel with a lot of free space between the base and barrel as most do?  I would wedge a piece of leather or other suitable material in that area and see if it makes a difference.  If so then you will need to bed the base to the barrel in the extended area.

[Spanky]

My 223 superlight will shoot very tight groups with 55 grain ammo.
I'm not exactly sure why yours won't shoot well.
Groups should tighten up as it gets broken in.

You might try polishing the bore??
Have you tried shooting without the forearm on it??

Keep working at it...


Spanky

[Singleshotsam]

What size groups does the gun shoot right now?

I would inspect the bore for any burrs or nicks in the rifling.  Also check for tool marks, and if worse comes to worse, have a headspace gauge thrown on it... You may have a bad bbl on your hands... If that's the case, send it back for a new one...

[lowhighlander]

right now it will start with a 4-6 inch group first 3 or 4 rounds with no pattern,  then will not even hit the paper.  i've inspected the bore and don't see any major flaws and have cleaned it very thoroughly three times.  i did shoot it without the forend with no results.  like i said before,  it could be part shooter error and part bad trigger,  but not to this extent.  right now i'm getting geared up for deer season and won't have as much time to play with it.  i may swap scopes with my .222 to make sure that's not the problem and would rather have the monarch on the primary hunting gun,  which at this stage will be the browning.  at this stage i'd rather not send it back after reading the horror stories about service right now,  but then i'd hate to sell it to someone and feel bad because it won't shoot.  guess the good thing is that is was inexpensive,  that's why i initially bought it because i figured i didn't have a lot to lose,  but money is still money and i expected a little better.

[Singleshotsam]

Honestly, if you've shot it without the forearm out of a steady sandbad, and your getting 6" + groups,  I would sent the gun back to H&R for inspection of either bore diameter, headspacing issue ect... If it were mine that's what I would do. 

[Troyboy]

+1




                                                     Troy