Hollow Points for Whitetail?

[togojeff]

I am going to use my 25-06 handi this year for whitetail.
According to the Hornady reloading manual  25 CAL 120 GR Hollow Points
are recommended for medium size game. Will these bullets being hollow points
cause a lot of damage?
Does anyone else have experience with these bullets?

[kevinsmith5]

Where will you be hunting (whitetails vary a lot from place to place in size)?  And how consistent a shot are you?

[togojeff]

I will be hunting near home in eastern saskatchewan, where the whitetails can get quite large.
I don't generally shoot unless I have a guaranteed shot under 200 yards.

[Kurt L]

I have not shot that bullet,but that bullet is as others in that class are made
to use on larger game with a heavy jacket compared to the 70 - 85 class off bullets
they are thin jackets and made to open fast on small game .
the 120 hp will open up and most likely go through a deer but not explode like
the vermint bullets. but if you use the light vermint bullets you place your shot they will kill deer like lightning an example is one my boy shot a bit a go with a 270 win with 90gr hp sierra bullets,yes they explode and put a hole going in the size of a grape fruit = bang flop dead deer.

[cwlongshot]

My brother has shot a half dozen white tails with this load. It shoots and work well for him. It also should for you.

Good luck,
 CW

[togojeff]

Thanks for the replies, I was worried they might blow huge holes in the animal resulting in excessive waste. I try to keep my shots in the lung area anyways, so they should work well.

[petemi]

My wife shoots woodchucks with .270 90 gr. hollow points.  It turns them into jelly.  I shoot deer with big bullets that blow through with large exit wounds.  A deer ain't a woodchuck.

I imagine a million, or millions of deer have been killed with a .30-30, and I have taken a few.  But, now I choose my .308, .30-06 or my .45-70.  I opt for maximum energy at POI, and a blow through, bone or not.  What's a varmint load do on a deer's shoulder?

There are lots of bear and buffalo spirits wandering the heavens that had fallen to the .45-70.

Years ago, as a kid, a guy was trying to slaughter an angus bull with a centerfire .22 (I think .223).  He shot it in the forehead from about 25 feet three times.  The animal was on its knees, bellowing with blood streaming down his face.  I jumped a fence and shot it behind the ear at about 40 yards with a .30-30 and killed it.

[rex6666]

Pete
I don't know how far away the guy was or where he was shooting,
but a train load of domestic livestock have been killed with a 22 LR
imagine a line from their right eye to the left ear, and from left eye to
right ear 22LR at the intersection drops them like a rock from about 10-15
ft hogs too.

[murphdog]

1+ on what rex6666 said.  Thats how you hit the brain.  I'm a veterinarian, and have used that method many times to drop an injured animal when nothing better was available.  Hooved animals have a large head with relatively small brain.  Many times I've seen an uninformed farmer shoot a dozen holes in a cow's sinuses (probably giving the cow an awful headache) but not putting a single bullet into the brain.  But a single 22lr in the right spot will do it. 
Duane

[petemi]

Yeah, I know that, I'm a farmer.  I've done the same having to slaughter or put down some of my own critters. The guy shooting was aiming below the horns and between the eyes.  I was coming from a quartering direction and the best shot I was able to safely shoot was behind the ear.

On the same topic, a short while ago, on a neighboring large dairy farm, I was asked to put down a cow.  I don't know what her exact condition was, but she was obviously in agony and the vet was 150 miles away, and he had told the farmer to euthanize her if he could.  I put a .45-70 behind her left ear.

[Kurt L]

The 120 hp as i said will be fine in that is heavy jacket constucted.its made to open but NOT BLOW UP.
It will go through the ribs and lungs and come out the other side with very little damage to meat as
the ribs don't have much good meat anyway.

What's a varmint load do on a deer's shoulder?

I can tell you if you don't hit the ribs=lung shot with a 270 win and Sierra 90gr hp and take a shoulder shot
it blows them up also it don't exit the other side but they drop and they don't run away.
no offence but it don't take a lot to kill 100-200 lb deer.
another thing is those folks that say you need at least a ? or a ? to kill a deer and the 243
thats always picked on is just not big enough to do the job. bull .
then those that will knock the 243 etc as not big enough and think you need a 45-70 or 338 mag
to drop a deer will go out and shoot a deer with a bow.these people are the ones that are probably to good to practice also . i have shot several deer with green junk in them becouse a bow hunter failed.
Well for the record I use varmint bullets and have not lost a deer becouse they was shot with varmint bullets in 243,257 roberts,270 win.I think I would rather get shot at by a bow than a 223,243,and others they say can't kill deer.
I have used varmint bullets for years and will continue to use them,Why do i like them?
Becouse they blow up on impact of a deer and do big damage and NO EXIT HOLE ON A DEER.
this means the deer took 100% of what the cartridge and bullet had .when that bullet goes through
and keeps going for a while that deer did not take everything the cartridge and bullet had to offer.
Like I said folks don't take me wrong as throwing flames etc.just my 2 cents

[Datil]

 
 Rex 6666 Is correct,I have done that hundreds of times beef and hogs.
 Marv.
 

[Dust_Remover]

The 120 hp as i said will be fine in that is heavy jacket constucted.its made to open but NOT BLOW UP.
It will go through the ribs and lungs and come out the other side with very little damage to meat as
the ribs don't have much good meat anyway.

What's a varmint load do on a deer's shoulder?

I can tell you if you don't hit the ribs=lung shot with a 270 win and Sierra 90gr hp and take a shoulder shot
it blows them up also it don't exit the other side but they drop and they don't run away.
no offence but it don't take a lot to kill 100-200 lb deer.
another thing is those folks that say you need at least a ? or a ? to kill a deer and the 243
thats always picked on is just not big enough to do the job. bull .
then those that will knock the 243 etc as not big enough and think you need a 45-70 or 338 mag
to drop a deer will go out and shoot a deer with a bow.these people are the ones that are probably to good to practice also . i have shot several deer with green junk in them becouse a bow hunter failed.
Well for the record I use varmint bullets and have not lost a deer becouse they was shot with varmint bullets in 243,257 roberts,270 win.I think I would rather get shot at by a bow than a 223,243,and others they say can't kill deer.
I have used varmint bullets for years and will continue to use them,Why do i like them?
Becouse they blow up on impact of a deer and do big damage and NO EXIT HOLE ON A DEER.
this means the deer took 100% of what the cartridge and bullet had .when that bullet goes through
and keeps going for a while that deer did not take everything the cartridge and bullet had to offer.
Like I said folks don't take me wrong as throwing flames etc.just my 2 cents

Remember, energy doesn't kill deer. Holes, penetration, and organ destruction do.  Punching a big hole through both sides of a deer with a big slow bullet will kill a deer just as dead (probly more reliably) as/than the "varmint" bullets you are using.  I'm not saying that they are ineffective, I personally believe that your assessment of the one hole in, no hole out philosophy being the best ideology isn't the best.  I believe that the more holes to bleed from the better.  A demostration of hydrostatic shock is great for selling a round, however if that light super fast round requires most of it's kinetic energy just to penetrate the hair, hide, fat, muscle, and bone of the rib only to arrive at the lungs as many small bits of bullet, and bone fragments, that may drop the deer in it's tracks, but that doesn't make it a great round to use.  I've killed a deer with a .223, however I used a bullet of good construction, not a varmint bullet.  I've had friends that have killed many deer with 6mm range rifles and all have worked well.  Leave the varmint bullets for what they were made for, varmints.  Use a round designed for medium game on medium game.  At least have that much respect for the game you are hunting.  Bullets expand for a reason, they are expanding because they're suppose to make a larger permanent wound cavity.  A .223 would cavity it quite small, allow the round to expand to .50 or larger, the better.

Branden

[togojeff]

Just got home yesterday and was able to consult my Hornady reloading manual.
The 120 grain bullet in question is not classified as a varmint bullet but it is recommended for
medium game. Also sectional density is the highest of all the .257 bullets made by Hornady
at .260.  B.C is also the best in this caliber at .394. I don't think I'll have any problems with this
bullet on whitetail.
Thanks again for all the interesting viewpoints.

[bilmac]

Winchester used to make a 130gr 270 bullet that was hollow point. They called it OPE, which meant open point expanding. It was a dandy. A nice tough bullet that always opened up. I was sorry to see it go, I suppose they couldn't sell them because of the same prejudice you see posted here. If the bullet is made for game it will probably do fine. The rub comes because there are a lot of HPs out there that were never intended for shooting larger critters. Predator bullets and target bullets. Which brings up the point why do target shooters like them?
I'm not sure if this is the whole reason or not but one factor is that they don't get battered in the magazine. So if you can get some of the advantages of a target bullet and still have a good killer why not?

Give the boys from Hornaday some credit, they're no dummys, if they say it is a game bullet, I would give it a fair try. It will probably turn out to be a good bullet that dies an early death because of prejudice.

[mitchell]

The 120 hp as i said will be fine in that is heavy jacket constucted.its made to open but NOT BLOW UP.
It will go through the ribs and lungs and come out the other side with very little damage to meat as
the ribs don't have much good meat anyway.

What's a varmint load do on a deer's shoulder?

I can tell you if you don't hit the ribs=lung shot with a 270 win and Sierra 90gr hp and take a shoulder shot
it blows them up also it don't exit the other side but they drop and they don't run away.
no offence but it don't take a lot to kill 100-200 lb deer.
another thing is those folks that say you need at least a ? or a ? to kill a deer and the 243
thats always picked on is just not big enough to do the job. bull .
then those that will knock the 243 etc as not big enough and think you need a 45-70 or 338 mag
to drop a deer will go out and shoot a deer with a bow.these people are the ones that are probably to good to practice also . i have shot several deer with green junk in them becouse a bow hunter failed.
Well for the record I use varmint bullets and have not lost a deer becouse they was shot with varmint bullets in 243,257 roberts,270 win.I think I would rather get shot at by a bow than a 223,243,and others they say can't kill deer.
I have used varmint bullets for years and will continue to use them,Why do i like them?
Becouse they blow up on impact of a deer and do big damage and NO EXIT HOLE ON A DEER.
this means the deer took 100% of what the cartridge and bullet had .when that bullet goes through
and keeps going for a while that deer did not take everything the cartridge and bullet had to offer.
Like I said folks don't take me wrong as throwing flames etc.just my 2 cents

+1 and +1 again !!!!!


when a deer gets hit with a fast moving slug the insides turn to jello!!! DRT !!!! and energy does kill deer , energy cause's trama/destruction . if all the organs turn to jello then there's to organs to keep the body moving , dead deer right there everytime. now if the bullet blows up on impact thats a differant story , and ideal bullet to me is a bullet that will make it thru the lungs and stop in the far shoulder that way the bullet has expended all its energy in to the deer and turns everything in its path into mush.   

[petemi]

I'll bet you can pick up your deer with one hand and put them in the back of the pick-up and field dress 'em later.  I've seen even yearling does with absolutely amazing stamina go a long way on a heart/lung shot.  I'm sure I could kill a deer with my .17 HMR, but I wouldn't ever want to try it.

What is this fascination of everyone trying to kill deer with the smallest possible pill???  Knock them over where they stand.  Kill 'em dead.  Then and there.  No chances.  Don't chase them.  What happens if a twig gets in the way???  The biggest question is WHY?  Are we too cheap to buy larger ammo and guns???

If so, stay home and shoot your air rifle in the basement.

[petemi]

Another thought ocurred to me; assuming deer and people are about the same size.  The U.S. military adopted the .223 not because it killed better, but because a soldier could carry more of them and shoot them faster.  The .308 was better for distance killing and penetrating, but heavier to carry.  The .223 was adopted to WOUND the enemy.  A wounded person takes 3 people off the battlefield.  A dead one takes one.  Wanna wound your deer or kill it??

[billy_56081]

120 grain .257 bullets knock the snot out of our MN whitetails and I bet there aint a one of us in here that can lift in in the back of there vehicle one handed.

And what happens if a twig gets in the way? Well my poorly informed friend, the same thing that happens with any bullets when it hits a twig, it gets deflected. I guess you were not aware that "brush busting bullets" are a complete and utter myth. By the way the world in not flat either if you didn't know. The bigger the bullet the more likely it is that it will nick a twig or Branch from the simple stand point of area.

[petemi]

Sure, lets take a half inch twig and shoot a .17 hmr thru it and a .45-70....O.K.??

[Russ Jerome]

I stand clear of 22 centerfire and deer discussions, always a long
and highly debated topic.....at 45yr's old I'm ready to be judged...

I grew up in CT/MA, long before mandatory hunter safety in my
teens, before minimum load size I took my first four deer with
a hand me down .222, unknown over the counter loads from
Zayers (like k-mart now). The 4 deer I killed were the only deer
I had ever seen hunting, all died quickly and pic's look pretty
good size....memory said they were huge but that's a long time
ago!

Years later I'm not sure but I believe 8 of my own deer and a
few friends tags have been filled with various .223 rounds from
my own guns. I own several large center fires but growing up
knowing where (and when) to put a bullet I feel totally at ease
dropping WI deer (ya they get decent up here) with a 64gr
Nosler/partitioned or other game load. I used to get flack from
long time hunting buddies but they sit at the bar now very quiet
when some local hunter says a 222 is a squirrel gun, I don't pipe
up and my buddies smile knowing if I see it (50-150yrd areas
we hunt) I will drop it if the shot presents itself.

To me (bias) shooting a deer with a 223 is like shooting a rabbit
with my 10/22, I "know" I'm not going to miss and I "know" he
is gonna die. No flinching on my part, its very calming to me holding
a small center fire knowing I can place the 55-64gr bullet any
place I choose even if my whole body is froze and weak from hrs
of being in the woods. The comment earlier about the Bull, may be
true but If you put a standard Wolf cheapo 55 grainer thru the
head of a 150# dressed doe it will fall like a rock! I don't get in the
habit of trick shots but a neck shot is a huge target for a Weatherby
1500, 24",223 resting on your treestand at 100yards.

Lurked on/off here for years, sorry about the novel

[Russ Jerome]

Oh!
And when Im invited to hunt with others I usualy bring my BIG
GUN...my old Savage 243 bolt. Only to be nice and not start
topics like this I've got two 308's, a semi and a bolt but its
honestly way more than I think anybody should need with others
hunting within 1000yrds of you. You can realy make a mess of
field dressing with a 308 round misplaced...ick!

[petemi]

I guess I'm backing out of this discussion.  But, I will add, when I was very young and inexperienced, I killed a deer with a .22 LR.  It didn't magically turn it into a deer rifle.

[billy_56081]

Sure, lets take a half inch twig and shoot a .17 hmr thru it and a .45-70....O.K.??

What does a 17HMR have to do with a discussion on a 25-06 and 120 grain bullets? Very weak arguments, obviously you have veery little actual knowledge of using big game style verses varmint stle bullets. A 120 grain 25-06 bullet is great plenty for any whitetail that walks. Don't let the inexperianced people who believe myth more than fact try to sway you.

[yukondog]

I dont soot the hornady but I do shoot sierra 120 hp kill's deer very dead and fast if you do your part.