blackhorn

[trapperman59]

How many shots would you get out of a 10oz. can of buckhorn

[trapperman59]

Im sorry the load would be 100 gr.

[Varmint Hunter]

As I calculate it, 59 or 60. It would have been nice if BH came in 1lb cans but I guess they were afraid of "sticker shock".

I'll bet by next year they offer BH in larger cans at somewhat of a savings. I finished off 2-10oz cans in no time. 10oz is just too small of a purchase if you are working up loads or just like to shoot.

[Graybeard]

There are 7000 grains in a pound so that means there are 437.5 grains per ounce times ten ounces equals 4375 grains divided by 100 grains per load you will get almost but not quite 44 shots.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Dang! $25 per oz (cheapest price ive seen) + $20 hazmat, thats over $1 a shot just for powder.

[Busta]

There are 7000 grains in a pound so that means there are 437.5 grains per ounce times ten ounces equals 4375 grains divided by 100 grains per load you will get almost but not quite 44 shots.

Bill,

I'll try to tread lightly. You would be correct if you were to weigh out the loads, but 100 grains VOLUME is the equivelant to 70 grains by WEIGHT of Blackhorn 209. This is the multiplier that Western has issued 0.7, so if we use that there would be 4375 grains WEIGHT in the 10 oz container divided by 70 grains WEIGHT (100 grain VOLUME equivelant) = 62.5 shots per container.

Example:  100 grains Volume x 0.7 (WEIGHT multiplier) = 70 grains WEIGHT.

I am sure that is what he was looking for, since a 100 gr load by weight would be the equivelant of 143 grains (OVERLOAD) by volume. Western has a maximum recomendation of 120 grains by volume in rifles to handle MAGNUM charges, as the 120 grains volume is the equivelant to 150 grains black powder/pyrodex/3 50 grain pellet loads.

84 grains by WEIGHT (120 grains by VOLUME) is the maximum charge. I just want trapperman59 to know "this aint yer daddy's black powder anymore", know before you load. Be safe guys. I ordered a case of this stuff back in April and have been testing it, it is very good stuff, but you need a strong 209 primer to make it work 100%. Some rifles will not shoot it as reliably, due to the breech plug design.

Read all about it here.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

[Graybeard]

Yup if like Pyrodex which is what I use it's "grains equivilent" of black powder my response wouldn't work. He said 100 grains tho and since I've not even read up on the new stuff I assumed he really was gonna load 100 grains as he said. That do make a big difference whether it's actual weight or grains equivilent.

[Varmint Hunter]

Based on my volumetric measure of 100gr of BH209, I get about 73gr of actual weight. That is how I determined that the poster would get 59-60 loads from a single can.

Based on my original volumetric measure of a 120gr charge I got about 82.4 gr by weight. I have since found that to be slightly low and am now using 85.0 (weighed) for all loads. Accuracy did improve in my T/C with the small increase in powder charge.

There are 7000 grains in a pound so that means there are 437.5 grains per ounce times ten ounces equals 4375 grains divided by 100 grains per load you will get almost but not quite 44 shots.

Bill,

I'll try to tread lightly. You would be correct if you were to weigh out the loads, but 100 grains VOLUME is the equivelant to 70 grains by WEIGHT of Blackhorn 209. This is the multiplier that Western has issued 0.7, so if we use that there would be 4375 grains WEIGHT in the 10 oz container divided by 70 grains WEIGHT (100 grain VOLUME equivelant) = 62.5 shots per container.

Example:  100 grains Volume x 0.7 (WEIGHT multiplier) = 70 grains WEIGHT.

I am sure that is what he was looking for, since a 100 gr load by weight would be the equivelant of 143 grains (OVERLOAD) by volume. Western has a maximum recomendation of 120 grains by volume in rifles to handle MAGNUM charges, as the 120 grains volume is the equivelant to 150 grains black powder/pyrodex/3 50 grain pellet loads.

84 grains by WEIGHT (120 grains by VOLUME) is the maximum charge. I just want trapperman59 to know "this aint yer daddy's black powder anymore", know before you load. Be safe guys. I ordered a case of this stuff back in April and have been testing it, it is very good stuff, but you need a strong 209 primer to make it work 100%. Some rifles will not shoot it as reliably, due to the breech plug design.

Read all about it here.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

[Varmint Hunter]

BH209 can be bought in most places for $29.95 per can. If you mail order than it is a good idea to order for several shooting buddies at the same time. You can mix a BH209 purchase with regular smokeless power to get your purchase quantity up in a single box.

I ordered 14lbs of powder (mixed) for myself and 2 buddies. We saved a lot of money because the internet price was much cheaper than the local shop and there was no sales tax. This greatly off-set the $20 HazMat and S&H fees.

I wouldn't consider mail ordering a single can of any powder.

Dang! $25 per oz (cheapest price ive seen) + $20 hazmat, thats over $1 a shot just for powder.

[Busta]

Varmint Hunter,

I am not arguing with you here, but I posted Western's VOLUME to WEIGHT multiplier (0.7). I have also weighed several loads from 80 to 120 grains VOLUME, and my personal multiplier is 0.69.

I used two different powder measures, using both thrown charges and tapped charges scraped level. My results were different for each measure and each method and are as follows. Each measure and scale will vary slightly, so figure that into the equasion.

T/C brass measure, 100 grain VOLUME charges:

12 charges thrown, tossed out the high and low, average = 68.91 grains WEIGHT
12 charges tapped, tossed out the high and low, average = 69.88 grains WEIGHT

T/C (Flint River) U-View measure, 100 grain VOLUME charges:

12 charges thrown, tossed out the high and low, average = 68.02 grains WEIGHT
12 charges tapped, tossed out the high and low, average = 69.01 grains WEIGHT

My personal multiplier is 0.69 with my equipment, I would think that Western's measuring equipment would be way more accurate than any measures or scales we have at our disposal. I will just take there word for it and stay on the safe side of the numbers. Of course there could be other variables such as Lot # and humidity that can come into play.

If you just do the math on your numbers you will find either your measure or scale are not right.

Example: You stated 100 gr VOLUME = 73 grains WEIGHT, that would be a 0.73 multiplier. IF you used this multiplier a 120 gr VOLUME charge would WEIGH 87.6 grains, yet you mentioned your scales weighed it at 82.4, that is a 5.2 grain difference for only a 20 grain added VOLUMETRIC charge???

Now take your 120 gr VOLUME charge = 82.4 gr WEIGHT, that would be a 0.6867 multiplier. You found that to be slightly low, but maybe it was right and your 100 gr VOLUME charge above was high?


In order to check your scale against your volume measure, weigh out a 50/60/70/80/90/100/110/120 grain loads and check them against your multiplier, and I don't mean just one load of each, at least 10 loads of each to find the average and extreme spread. If your measure or scale is not calibrated, it will show up in your math, and math don't lie. I have checked mine and the numbers are very close. I had extreme spreads of 2.2 grains WEIGHT on the 100 grain VOLUME charges alone, until I tapped and settled the charges, then the extreme spread went down to 1.1 grain WEIGHT.

Just be safe guys, and know before you load!

[Varmint Hunter]

I have no issue with your post. I was merely relaying my experience with BH209. I was not as careful as you in ensuring that my dumping/filling technique was so consistent. I just poured the measure full and scraped the charge level across the top. Then I weighed it on my RCBS 505 scale.

My scale is fine and if you measure by volume you will always get some variation depending on compactness of charge and, I assume, a few other variables. This is the reason that I now measure my charges by weight exclusively.

Weighed charges of BH209 have resulted in 200-yard groups that were smaller than I ordinarily would have expected.

I have always appreciated your informed posts. Keep them coming. 

[billy]

Not sure how many shots i will get but i really like blackhorn power and so does my encore.

[Lawful Larry]

The more I hear about this powder, the more I am confused.  Someone was saying on another forum that this powder is in fact not a BP substitute, but in fact a mix of sub and smokeless.  So if this is correct then how does this fit into our BP category? 

Is it or isn't it a BP substitute?  I still think no powder on the market today is worth this price.  I'll stay with BP.

[sabotloader]

Lawful Larry

It is not a Black Powder... it is and was designed as a Black Powder Sub.  The burning charactersitics of this powder do not match BP at all.  It was engineered to match BP in the pressures it developes and measurement of the powder by volume.

It is expensive, but with it's ease of use and for those that only shoot on occaision - it might be well worth it for it's advantageous over BP.  For those that shoot a lot it probably will not be your best buy per shot.

[Lawful Larry]

Thanks SL, I still don't know why that other guy said this powder is more smokeless then BP sub. 

You would be right about the guy that only shoots ML once a year for hunting season and that is it.  Me, I shoot all year long and this powder would break my bank fast!  For my inline guns I use Pyrodex RS and it works for me just great.  For all my other sidelocks it is the holy black (Goex) and that is what I use by the case.