NEF BC 45-100 WIN

[NFG]

I re-chambered my BC to 45-100 yesterday.  Here are the initial numbers.

Starline brass

45-90 - 90g H2O at 2.395"
45-100 - 98g H2O at 2.595"
45-110 - ~110g at 2.870"

458 WM - 93g H2O at 2.5"
458 Lott - 106g H2O at 2.8"

Fired one 45-90 round to check chamber.  Load 65g AA2460, Horn 350 RN, 2.875" COAL.  LfromaD gave about 2100 fs w/32" bbl at 36.3 KCUP...weather lousy so I don't have my chrono set up...I will chrono some 350's as time goes on, but my primary interest is in the 400-600 gr weight range and smokeless powder. 

I will probably take it out to 45-110 (2.875"), which is about 458 Lott case capacity, but that is as far as I want to go.  I won't smoke with this one so 3.25" is not an option.

For the 45-100 LfromaD gives 2500 fs with a 100% load of Varget, 350 Horn RN, 3.08" COAL, at 48.5 CUP.

NONE OF THESE LOADS ARE IN ANY WAY RECOMMENDED NOR SHOULD BE FIRED IN ANY RIFLE...THEY ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.

I have some 430g hard case GC bullets due sometime this week to start out the load development process, with 525 PileDrivers and 550 Craters slated as soon as they are available.   Sometime along in there I will try out the Barnes 450 TXF, North Fork, Swift and maybe Woodleighs, or at least a couple of the brands.  A guy could go broke buying those "hidollr, high on the hog" pills...lead slugs are pricey enough in these sizes and weights. 

[tykempster]

Should be neat!  Interested in your results with heavy boolits.

[AtlLaw]

coolness and light!  Soons I get over this crud and become somewhat human I got to get to work on mine!      We should be able to share a good bit of data!

[Spanky]

Has anyone reamed one of the 22" 45-70 barrels to one of these monsters??

It looks interesting for sure.


Spanky

[NFG]

The sun peeked out long enough for me to set up the Beta, load up one 45-100 rnd and fire it.  72 g AA2460 (90% load), Horn 350 Rn, 3.08" COAL, 2300 fs/~41 KCUP.  This agreed with LfromaD.  The case fell out of the chamber when I tipped it up...I didn't install the ejector yet...AA2230 and Varget will give almost the same pressure and velo as AA2460.  Not sure if 2500 fs with the Horn 350 is achievable, I'm close to the pressure/bulk density limits with these powders and the next step faster powders go beyond the pressure limits. 

The AA powders worked the best in my 460 BOODOGGLE McWILDMAN also.(nothing but a 458WM loaded to about 45 KCUP)

Not much gain over what the 45-90 will do...basically equal velocity at slightly lower pressures in the 45-100, but looks like it puts you into the next slower burning powder range...I like 85% to 100% load density.

From what my number crunching seems to point to, the 45-110 might just be the most efficient within these powder burn rates...high velo and lower pressures using high load density, slower burning powders.  If I had my druthers of course, I would have a Sharps 45-120 or maybe a 50-140 to play with for those 1000 yd smok'n' matches. :LOL

I think 550-600 gr hits the point of diminishing returns as far as pressure/velocity/ease of extraction, bullet length/seating depth is concerned in this platform and near my limit for recoil...my 8 lb Rem 870, 12GAFH 750g sluggun loads at 85-100 ft/lb of pain are enough for me...I want to keep shooting enjoyable...not an exercise in pain management and I spend enough on doctors as it is, no need to include chiropractic care.

Even the largest game doesn't necessarily flop over when pranged with heavy weights unless the CNS is involved, and recoil recovery for a second or more is more important than ending up on your back from a one shot wonder barely on the edge of handling.

I don't remember reading of anyone doing the shorter barreled Handi, only the BC, but I remember some data on the 45-70 - 22" compared to the 32" BC on this forum I think, or Beartooth.  Taking the 22" out to 45-100 or 110 would give you a very desirable, quick handling "up close and personal" pig sticker...basically a 458 WM or 458 Lott in a much shorter package.

There was also a bit of consternation when I posted the results I obtained with my 32" BC and the 3 brands of 300 gr bullets I tested using data for the Ruger #1...using an averaged mix of data from the 2006 Hodgdon's manual, LfromaD, Lyman's 48th, Barnes and Nosler manuals and working up slowly from midpoint loads.  I won't post it again but a search should turn it up.  There IS a difference in the extra 10" of barrel and using powders in the 4895 range, ~18 fs/inch (I think) and the best accuracy came using H4895, 300 Sie, Fed match/W-W cases.  I think we all know that longer barrels equal higher velocities...Your result will vary.

This will be an interesting and enjoyable project.  I've been holding off doing this project while I got all those other pesky projects finished off and my conscience clear.  Winter might get in the way partially...the ground freezes and heaves up so I can't get my loading room door open sometimes, or ice forms that even a pickaxe bounces off.  This year I scooped down 3" so if I can keep the ice from forming and plugging up the works I will have access until spring thaw.

Time will tell.

[NFG]

A few bits and pieces. 

In between rain showers today I checked out the 430 gr FPGC Trushot "Premium Silver Alloy Bullet", $28.99/50 including shipping from Oregon tails, I received yesterday.  This is one good looking pill. 

I weighed half the box and was pleasantly surprised at the very small range...3 gr...I've had that much and more in some brands of jacketed bullets, but most of the cast lead bullets I've used run closer to two or three times that range.  The bullets weighed from 436 to 439 gr.  The bullet measured 1.1"OAL and the crimp groove was 0.675" from the base, again very uniform in the 25 I measured.  Part of the variance could be in the lube and the gas checks.  I didn't check the ogives for variance, I will wait until I start plugging the targets...or not...depends on the groups.

These bullets gave me a COAL of 3.14" to the lands in MY rifle...yours may differ.

I used Lyman 45-70 dies adjusted to handle the 45-100 case, one case for the testing procedure and it lasted 6 firings before getting too thin at the "expansion joint" to try any more firings. I use once fired cases for hunting so they are expanded full length to fit the chamber.  My experience in all the weapons I've used has taught me this simple rule.  I also use one case for load development until it wears out so the case volume, therefore velocity increases, stay as uniform as possible for that run.

The case lengthened 0.007"-0.010" per cycle and I trimmed it back to 2.6" and cleaned the primer pocket each cycle and I deburred the flash hole. I didn't weigh or mike the neck this being a relatively "straight walled cartridge", the expander was adjusted to form a gas check deep "expansion ring" to start the bullet easier, but the case wasn't belled out because of the way the button is designed.  I DIDN"T crimp, this being a single shot and this ball powder is easy to ignite.  I used WLR primers but will also try Fed 210 Match sometime.

I ran the numbers through LfromD and checked it against two other manuals that include the 45-100 and also against the 458 WM as these two cases have similar case volumes...the 45-100 having about 5 gr more capacity.

The first powder I tried is AA2230 starting at 66 gr and increasing in 2 gr increments to 70 gr, then dropped to one grain increments to 73 gr and marked the case each firing.  First round I seated to the crimp groove 3.025" COAL all the rest were 3.14" COAL.

First round Beta Chrony was 2177fs/47.2 KCUP, which agreed with the number crunching within statistical limits.  I stopped at 73 gr - 2359/50 KCUP.  I had a velocity error for the 70gr load, (too close to the chrono), velocity was increasing about 30 fs per round for the first 3 rounds, 71 gr gave 2262 fs, 72 - 2359 fs and 73 - 2305 fs....pretty much a normal progression which includes average differences due to normal hi/lo range spreads.  Once I start targeting I will use 3 cases, 3 round groups and include the SD's for those interested.

All cases ejected easily...when the pressures get a bit stiff in every Handi I have the spring loaded ejector stops ejecting when the case sticks against the chamber wall even slightly..a very good safe load indicator.

For an almost 440 gr bullet 2360 fs is a very respectable velocity...puts this BC in the 416 RM/458 WM/416 Rigby factory load category.  There is still room to grow here, but I won't post any of that data if I continue on a little farther as this load is pretty much at published pressure max for this receiver and I DON'T or WON'T recommend going any farther.

I still have a couple more powders I want to try with this bullet...Varget, RL15 and BLC2...to see how the powder/density/velocity graph works out, but I think AA2230 and AA2460 will be the best fits as they were in the 460 Boondoggle McWildman...by then I should have the 500 gr plus bullets in.

For those who are recoil sensitive or just want to know...in this 11 lb BC at 2350 f/s, 435 gr bullet, 73 gr powder charge the Recoil Velocity is 17 f/s, Recoil Energy is 49.8 ft lbs....OH GOD, OUCH, SEVERE and "SLAP YOU INTO NEXT WEEK",  on ye ol' hurt me some more, I love it, meter...

I LIKE this shooter...only problem is finding a gun bearer to haul all that weight around.  ...it will be a grind to haul it the 100 yds out to my bench and back again...at least for this broke d**k steer.  LOL

[NFG]

Got back to my 45-100 today after spending some time on loads for my 500 Mossy defensive 12GAFH with 730 gr Dixie slugs.  Most of that data is posted on Shotgun World - slug shooters - 12 GA FH.

I tried a few rounds with the same loads I posted before just to check and the numbers were roughly the same.

I also tried A2230 got the velo up to 2359fs but the pressure was up also...cases only lasted 5 reloads before the stretch ring formed inside the case and I stopped,  plus tossing the case.

AA2520 did the same thing going above 2300 but with too much pressure and the cases died an early death.

The cases were ejecting OK, no sticking and the primers were flattened but still had a curve at the edges.  Pressure was 48 to 50 Kpsi

I checked Varget and RL-15...kept increasing powder amount with each slower burning powder but the velocity wasn't going up very fast and I ran out of case capacity before hitting 2300.

Checked my VMD table and found WW 748 with the lowest density plus being just slightly faster than Var or RL-15. 

This one worked great. 78 gr is 100% load density for the seating dept.  I went to 80 gr, just slightly compressed, used Fed 215 mag primers, got 2309fs and pressure is roughly 44 KPSI.  All the 748 loads, 9 total, didn't cause much stretching and the inside ring didn't form but I tossed it at 9 anyway.  Velocity was going up at 105 f/s per 3 grains and pressure went up at 3622 psi per 3 grains of 748 according to LD V5.  81 gr should put the velocity around 2350 and pressure just at 45 Kpsi and the case should last 10 reloads without any problems.

Recoil level with the 435gr Trushot at 2350 and an 11# gun hits 50 ft/lbs as I said before...somewhere...it doesn't bother me standing up when I get on the bench I will use a 25# sissy bag for sure.  This load is at 458 Lott levels for a 400-450 gr bullet.

I won't go any farther with this load...2350fs is plenty. ME is 5300 ft/lbs, 2800 ft/lbs plus at 100 yds and Taylor index is 48 at 100 yds.  Plenty for what I would use it for.

I will work on 500-600 gr as soon as I find some available.