94 in 44mag to 44-40

[BUFFALOW red]

got a 1894 in 44 mag great gun 1979 model but i shoot BP & get blow back in the action after 25-30 rounds wanting/ thinking to change to 44/40
can a smith just cut the chamber? who wood i call to have this done
if i have to change barrel does it need or have to go to factory
what to do with all my 44mag ammo

[federali]

The .44-40 uses a bullet of .427 diameter compared to .429 for the .44 Magnum.
Rim diameter, .44-40=.525 .44 Magnum =.514.

Thus, converting a .44 Magnum to .44-40 may result in poor accuracy

[cwlongshot]

The bore will not hurt a thing. .429 Jacket bullets are easier to come by. 

 I haven't checked mine, but was under the assumption both my Marlin 44/40s had .429 barrels anyhow. I know Ruger uses/used .429 barrels for its 44-40 cal guns.

Any compitent gunsmith could easily open up the bolt face to accomidate when you have the chamber re-cut.

CW

[BUFFALOW red]

ok thanks

[Mikey]

BUFFALOW Red - are you getting enough pressure with those black powder loads to seal the case in the chamber when it goes off??  If your loads do not have sufficient pressure to seal the chamber you often see something like a half circle of soot or a half moon smudge at the mouth of the case.  If this is what yiou see then I believe your loads may be under pressure, and dirty, and the dirt buildup may be the cause of the blow back. 

You also did not say what powder charge you were using, or what weight bullet.  I am assuming you are familiar with black powder shooting and are using the correct lubricant and bullet type as well as a sufficiently compressed charge of bp to create a proper bp load.  Mikey.

[BUFFALOW red]

im useing a 200 gr big lube brand boolit with spg lube over a 44 mag case full as i can get it of 2f swiss bp, then compress powder with boolit & crimp

[Mikey]

OK, that sounds stout enough to seal things up - have you resized any of the fired brass yet and how easily or difficult do they size compared to 44 magnum level brass?? 

Also, do you clean your rifle with the stuff you need for black powder or do you still use what you use for smokeless??  I don't think they are compatible.

I'm just asking 'cause ya'll shouldn't be getting blow back after only a few rounds.  How dirty is your barrel/chamber when you start getting blow back?  If it looks really gummy there might be something wrong with your load combo or possibly your 12 groove barrel?? - black powder and a micro-groove barrel, I dunno? 

How does the rifle shoot with 44 magnums?  Do you have similar problems?  Do you shoot jacketed or cast?  Did you clean out all the copper fouling from jacketed loads before you started shooting bp??

I think I'm gonna drop on down to the black powder forums and look around for topics like this. Mikey. 

[BUFFALOW red]

i have tryed only neck sizeing were i adjust the die to deprime & sizes about 1/2 the case
im only useing 44mag cases
clean with blistoil
barell stays soft with big lube boolits as i have a greassy star on mussel even after 50 rounds but the cases get blackened & carrer gets blackened & binds up after 20 rounds
even smokless will do it after 60 rounds
i have tryed squirting blistol & water mix in action betwen stages, but doesent help enough

[Mikey]

red - blackened cases with smokeless powder indicate a low pressure load that fails to seal the chamber and allows blowback.  I would almost think it might be the same with bp.

You did not say how much bp by weight you loaded into the cases.  The old 38/40, 44/40 and original bp 45 Colt loads (45/40) used 40 gns of bp in the old balloon head cases, so I'm wondering just how much bp you are actually getting into the cases. 

Mike Venturino once used 30 gn Pyrodex pellets (I believe it was Mike who did this) in a 44 spl or 44/40 and got pretty good results but did not mention anything about things getting gummed up or dirty. 

It almost sounds like you don't use enough bp however, since the same dang thing happens with smokless but after more (smokeless) rounds there may be something hanging up your carrier, like a burr somewhere or tight tolerances that can't tolerate dirt buildup.  But, some of the bp threads indicate frequent cleaning with bp - maybe you need to do that rather than go for 25 rounds or so before she gums up, but you already do that.

You mentioned your 'star' at the muzzle crown - that's what bp shooters get, too but that is expected and I believe shows both a proper charge and bullet. 

I would first have a gunsmith look at the carrier and see if there is anything there that can be relieved so it doesn't start hanging up on you - you may even need to use a bp preferred oil to lube the carrier spring/hinge or whatever.  Also, how does your bore look after 25 rounds - in need of a cleaning?  If so, more frequent cleanings with a different solvent may be required.

As I said, I cruised about 8 or 9 pages of that one bp forum here on GBs but not the whole thing.  I know you should find something of pertinence if you go through that forum or one of the cowboy action forums may be even better with more pertinent information. 

Look at it this way - bp has been used in tons of lever actions since who knows when and there should be some advice on keeping those things clean and shooting.  I think the next stop is the cowboy action forums.  I will keep looking.  Mikey.

I looked through about 8 or 9 pages of the Black Powder Rifle and Pistol Cartridge forum - from back forward but did not see anything conclusive about bp in 44 mag cases

[Mikey]

red - I picked up a couple of posts from the Cowboy Action Shooting Forum that may be of interest. 

You are using 2f Swiss bp - this guy uses Elephant 3f.  This is what I found from march, 2007:

"Hi all, I just picked up an old Browning B92 chambered for 44 mag, and dutifully tried a bunch of different smokeless loads I had laying around. Nothing worked worth a darn! So, I dug out a coffee can full of #429421 Keith bullets, lubed them up with my homemade BP lube in the lube groove and also the crimp groove. Seated them over a 1/8" compressed charge of Elephant FFFg, lit with a Win mag pistol primer, and they worked great! It's no problem to break clay birds at 100 yards, and I was getting 25 or so shots between wiping the bore. Aah, much better. I guess no matter what the caliber of an 1892, it's just happier burning charcoal!

Intresting, my Rossi 92 shoots high with any smokless load but dead on with Goex and a 200gr bullet. By the way you duplicate the original 44-40 exactley with 44mag brass and a 200gr bullet."

Maybe you should consider using a 3f powder - that is better for revolver cartridges.  I always thought the 2f and f were for rifles.  HTH.  Mikey.