Are we better or worse because of the war?

[Ga.windbreak]

Did those 630,000 men die in vain? Is the Country a better place or not? Our history is what it is and can't be changed but do we do those men who died a disservice by not remembering it as it was and learn from it or is it better left to be forgotten and just move forward as a unified country?

There was good and bad on both sides, as I've said before, its sad to think those wounds were/are so deep that there is still the animosity that is shown, not only here,but everywhere.

What are your feelings on this matter?

[Graybeard]

If anything good came of it or from it danged if I see it. On the other hand I can see lots of bad that came of it. I'm not saying the south was wrong as I do not think they were and had we won I think things would be far far better than they are today. But we didn't win and thus things have been bad and are not getting better. It's impossible to say what the nation would look like today had we won and how much better things would be but had the war not happened or had we won either I think all would be better for it today.

[littlecanoe]

Ga wb,
That's a difficult question.  It'll take some thought but I can see a very good discussion coming out of this.

Quick first thoughts:
1.  We are worse in the area of loss of state and individual rights.
2.  We have not, nor would we ever have had, the same government after the war as we had before the war so the 630,000 deaths accomplished something.  IMO those deaths accomplished a much worse form of government that was intended by our FF's.
3.  Westward expansion would have happened no matter.  Did it benefit from the War? If so, would the Indian population have fared better with a slower migration of Europeans westward and did the war speed that migration?
4.  As you noted, the physical, emotional, political, sociological, financial trauma that it caused the nation reverberates to this day.  We would have been better off in each of those areas without the conflict.

 

[Ga.windbreak]

I think one of the most important things (good) to come from this is that we, the South, have never lost our closeness and our roots. There is a bond between us that no other section of this country has and people are envious of that fact. Why else the name calling, why else do they get so upset when we proudly point out our kindness and courtesy to eachother, yes sir/no sir and all that goes with it. I also feel that the Government would be more unchecked than it is today because of our values. I've not met any true Southerner that is not fiercely proud of the Southern cause and of where they were born. Our state of birth is a very special place to us and God help the person to belittle it in front of us. And last but not least of all is the fact that so very many lies have been told to try and bring us down and still after 150+ years that has yet to be accomplished.

As for the bad there is much to be said about that. The Government is way to big and intrusive, states rights and civil liberties have suffered greatly and will continue to do so unless something is done to change that fact. WE truly need a Ron Paul type of leader IMHO to change the direction this nation is going. And last but not least, I feel, we are truly headed for some very bad times before things get better; if they ever do.

And thats my 2 cents.

[SHOOTALL]

if ya live in the north you got a place to go in the winter if ya live in the South ya got alot of BS to put up wiuth in the winter !

[Ga.windbreak]

Ah yes, the snow birds!!

[squirrellluck]

Strike a blow for the Confederacy convert a Yankee! I did. Sorry a little off topic?

[SHOOTALL]

that's worst than a sex change operation !

[Gary G]

I think one of the most important things (good) to come from this is that we, the South, have never lost our closeness and our roots. There is a bond between us that no other section of this country has and people are envious of that fact. Why else the name calling, why else do they get so upset when we proudly point out our kindness and courtesy to eachother, yes sir/no sir and all that goes with it. I also feel that the Government would be more unchecked than it is today because of our values. I've not met any true Southerner that is not fiercely proud of the Southern cause and of where they were born. Our state of birth is a very special place to us and God help the person to belittle it in front of us. And last but not least of all is the fact that so very many lies have been told to try and bring us down and still after 150+ years that has yet to be accomplished.

As for the bad there is much to be said about that. The Government is way to big and intrusive, states rights and civil liberties have suffered greatly and will continue to do so unless something is done to change that fact. WE truly need a Ron Paul type of leader IMHO to change the direction this nation is going. And last but not least, I feel, we are truly headed for some very bad times before things get better; if they ever do.

And thats my 2 cents.

GaWindbreak, that was very well said. Thank you! I fully agree with everything that you said.

I guess the big negative of any war is the destruction of lives and property. It is a part of the economy that is lost forever and can never be recovered. Even those who lost their lives; who is to say what discoveries they may have made or what contributions to society were lost.

[Ga.windbreak]

I guess the big negative of any war is the destruction of lives and property. It is a part of the economy that is lost forever and can never be recovered. Even those who lost their lives; who is to say what discoveries they may have made or what contributions to society were lost.

Truer words were never spoken Gary G. While true on both sides; clearly the Southern people lost their bravest, best, and brightest. There is no telling where and who we might have been as a country had they been given a chance to live and contribute to their country other than by death. So very sad but, you know, its true still today. Thank God there are not as many.

[littlecanoe]

Are we better or worse because of the war?

Our history is what it is and can't be changed but do we do those men who died a disservice by not remembering it as it was and learn from it or is it better left to be forgotten and just move forward as a unified country?

As soon as the first shot was fired and the first man died in this fight for freedom we could never be unified.  The very thing that Mr. Lincoln claimed to try to save was destroyed, a lesser instrument left in it's place.  Is an arranged marriage ever as fulfilling as one that grows out of love?  We are unified in name but are we unified in spirit?  The legacy of ongoing mistrust and of lost freedoms tells the story.

[Ga.windbreak]

lc, while that is certainly true in 1861 I think its more a matter of (those of us who are really Conservative) us against the Government. There is no way that we can or will ever go backwards. It truly is "GWTW" yet a movement away from big government is still possible. If, as I suspect, Obama turns out to be a remix of J. Carter he'll be out in 4 and we then have a chance to save and turn around what has become a real mess. JMO.

You must remember the conservative democratic movement was born in the South.

[Gary G]

We once lived in a nation called The United States of America; called that for what it was, a union of states. That changed in 1861 and 1933 and continues it's digression until this day. Let's be honest and call it what it has become:
The Leviathan Welfare State of America

Thank you Mr. Lincoln!

[littlecanoe]

While we can't say that the south is the main seat of conservatism it, with the middle states, are truly conservative.  The war gave that and it is ironic that the conservative Dem's have, by large numbers, switched to the conservative Republican party.  That is, what WAS the conservative Republican party.

As to Obama, I'm not sure if he's a Jimmy Carter or some hybrid of FDR/Clinton/Carter.

[Ga.windbreak]

While we can't say that the south is the main seat of conservatism it, with the middle states, are truly conservative.  The war gave that and it is ironic that the conservative Dem's have, by large numbers, switched to the conservative Republican party.  That is, what WAS the conservative Republican party.

As to Obama, I'm not sure if he's a Jimmy Carter or some hybrid of FDR/Clinton/Carter.

You are right, of course, we are no longer the main/only conservative area of the country. We can only lay claim to being the birthplace. Most of the anti-federalist were Southern and or Southern by place of residence including the framers of the Constitution. The Federalist, on the other hand, were those from the Northern states.