Author Topic: Got a complete lower now what? (Read 2823 times)

Graybeard · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:08:20 AM »

Thanks I'll check them out also.

backstrap · « **Reply #31 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:51:30 AM »

here's another 1 for u to check out on complete uppers, www.rguns.net these sights i am putting up here are from the shotgun news magazine,get u a shotgun news magazine and u will have a fine magazine to look at about ar's in the evening time in the easy chair

Graybeard · « **Reply #32 on:** December 02, 2008, 11:59:35 AM »

I checked out www.Del-Ton.com but I don't think I know enough about these rifles to order from them. Either they don't have anything like what I want or I don't know how to find it. I never found anything on there that didn't have the more or less standard A1/A2 sight and I really do not want that on mine. I also wasn't able to find a handguard anything like what I want.

Now it does appear they have some pretty cheap uppers if you're willing to accept what they have and unless I misunderstood then the bolt and carrier are included.

I'll check out www.rguns.net next.

Graybeard · « **Reply #33 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:29:04 PM »

OK I've now had time to visit the www.rguns.net site and I think I found pretty much what I'm looking for there. Here is a photo of what it looks like.

DPMS A3 16" Low Pro Upper With Bolt and Charging Handle

The barrel is 16" rather than the 18" to 20" I was thinking of but that will work fine as this one is to be set up primarily as a home defense gun anyway. It's an A3 flat top and the gas block (I think that's correct name) is set up with four short picatinny rails so I can add a fold down BUIS front sight up top, add a light on bottom and a laser to one side. The flat top rail should do fine for another Holosight or Aimpoint depending on which route I go and another folding BUIS for a rear sight.

It comes with the 5.56 Nato chamber and I think 1:7" twist rate. I'm pretty sure chamber and barrel are chrome lined but I will need to check that and to see if a chromed bolt is available.

Do I want a chrome bolt at extra cost? I tend to think I do what do the experts say?

Cost appears to be $350 which sure seems cheap compared to the complete uppers at Model 1 Sales. From what I can gather this is a complete price with everything including the bolt and carrier or at least that seems to be the way theirs are set up. I will need to verify by phone if this is the one I decide to buy. This is the description of it tho: DPMS A3 16" Low Pro Upper With Bolt and Charging Handle

Can a quality upper set up like this really be that inexpensive?

Totenkopf · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2008, 07:51:18 PM »

I am far from an expert. A chrome bolt is standard in these unless it is a varmint setup. Unchromed bolt is suppose to be good for 25,000 rnds chrome 50,000. That is not to failure, just replacement. So just a question of how much extra it is. Say $50 I would upgrade for piece of mind for family it would be passed to. I don't know about you, I can't afford enough ammo to have either get out of spec. That setup is better than you will get at model 1. Give me a few days and I'll trak down a double star, can't remember who carries them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #35 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:09:58 PM »

I don't anticipate shooting 25,000 thru any of my ARs but the peace of mind is perhaps worth it anyway. The extra cost generally isn't much based on what I've seen on Model 1 Sales and a few other places tho I dunno at RGUNS.

Totenkopf · « **Reply #36 on:** December 02, 2008, 09:01:28 PM »

For defense I would advise on 1/7" for a 16". Somalia was a major test of the M4 (14.5"). I'll keep it as clean as possible. The reduced velocity of the shorter barrel. Along with 55gr and the Somali's use of the drug khaj was not the best mix. Current Delta issue is 77 gr. So the 1/7 will let you use the better ammo coming out in the near future. Just remember reduced velocity requires more mass to adequately deliver energy to the target.

myronman3 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 03, 2008, 03:14:24 AM »

pretty funny because i remember the ammuntion we had used a 62 grain bullet, there was no 55 grain ammo availible to us. the m16's had a 1/7 twist, in order to stabilize the heavy bullet. and that was 91-94.

backstrap · « **Reply #38 on:** December 03, 2008, 05:58:30 AM »

how heavy of a bullet u going to be shooting??u dont have to buy a upper that has a gas block on it u can buy a flat top with the front sight on it and take it off and put your own gas block that is a piccatiny rail on it .so this way u can get the rifle twist u want and the barrel weght u want, that looks kinda like a heaver barrel i think for home deffence u would want a lighter rifle

mrbgt · « **Reply #39 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:13:13 AM »

The only concern I would have with that model is the upper reciever is extruded, instead of the standard forged upper . I haven't heard of any failing and DPMS is extruding upper recievers for the AR -10 models as well so it probably isn't anything to worry about .

AtlLaw · « **Reply #40 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:19:03 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on December 03, 2008, 03:14:24 AM

the ammuntion we had used a 62 grain bullet, there was no 55 grain ammo availible to us.

I believe Myron is correct as I remember - 'corse that memory thing brings anything I say into question...

I believe the 62 gr. was sort of a failure and the 55 is now back in favor as delivering better performence on target. Hi-ebber, and day is always a hiebber...

My opinion of the 55 gr may be slanted since it is all I have used (Hi-Power matches excluded) since '65.

Bill, Rguns is another one that didn't have the best reputation some years back. I bought something off them and didn't have a problem though. BUT! That does sound awful inexpensive for a complete DPMS upper! Heck I'd buy one for that price! But then I've been sick...

Chrome bolts? CHROME BOLTS!! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN CHROME BOLTS!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #41 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:31:11 AM »

i have read [no real expience] that
you want the light 45 to 55 grain for home defence

they blow up on sheet rock and are devastating on target

less home penetration than a 9mm....i read

i shoot what ever works best that is on sale

practice is more important than any thing

if you could plan and know just how much penetration/expansion you would know enough to avoid shooting

myronman3 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:07:07 AM »

that depends entirely on what kind of bullet you are using, as opposed to the weight of the bullet.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #43 on:** December 03, 2008, 09:22:07 AM »

varmint /fragile
i have some factory loaded
winchester 45gr jhp

varmint
3600 fps

let that nick you in the arm or leg

Totenkopf · « **Reply #44 on:** December 03, 2008, 11:06:21 AM »

Myronman I was wrong on the weight, they were 52 gr, not 55 gr. Delta was issued black tip armor piercing (M995) except the two that carried the M1A. Rangers were issued green tip 62 gr. (M885). The green tips are good if you can keep them over 2700 fps, which is hard to do very far with a short barrel. They will fragmentate out the side. The black tips also fragmentate at the cannalure at point blank, but not much over 5 yards in the 14.5".
Currently only snipers and Delta are issued the 77 gr. match king (MK-262). These are the bullet to have. They have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan. It has made the pipsqueak varmint round into something to depend on. This is the round for the 1-7". I was able to recover a few 77 gr. from Marco Pollo Sheep and Yak. Most bullets had mushroomed to roughly .5" a few in yak fragmented on bone into 2 main slugs and a bunch of little pieces.

myronman3 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 03, 2008, 11:26:33 AM »

hey, you wouldnt have known a guy named "vic" would you?

Totenkopf · « **Reply #46 on:** December 03, 2008, 12:24:27 PM »

PM with last name or nickname and time frame.

myronman3 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:31:50 PM »

i never knew his last name, just his first name. he was involved in supplying the guys you are refering to at bragg; i met him at a friends house in 93. we were drinking and talking, and i was b****** about some stuff i needed and could not get. a week later the friend who's house we were at shows up with a box full of stuff for me, gives it to me and says "this is from vic". all i am going to say is that the stuff he aquired for me was stuff that was not easy to get, even in military circles.

Graybeard · « **Reply #48 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:07:46 PM »

Quote

Chrome bolts? CHROME BOLTS!! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN CHROME BOLTS!

And that from a fellow with a broken Taurus.

Yer prolly right I likely don't need it. Truth is there is NOTHING I hate more than cleaning guns. I prefer to do it ONLY when ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and not a minute before. Just thought that might prolong the inevitable awhile longer.

I sure hate to hear any bad reports on RGUNS since they sure do seem reasonably priced. You can buy the same direct from DPMS right? Maybe I should compare their price. But really iffen it is a DPMS supplied item then what difference does it make who supplies it so long as it actually ships?

AtlLaw · « **Reply #49 on:** December 04, 2008, 01:28:48 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 03, 2008, 07:07:46 PM

And that from a fellow with a broken Taurus.

9 days into the customer service "7 to 10 days" and no screw...

Quote

I sure hate to hear any bad reports on RGUNS since they sure do seem reasonably priced.

The big draw on Rguns always was their price. I remember they were once advertising Colt's for a lot less then anyone else; if you could find one anywhere else. I was going to order a lower but it was during the ban, Both my uppers were pre-ban, I didn't think the ban would sunset, etc.

Plus, at one time there were 2 Rguns. But remember, all my AR info is several years old; things change. Heck I didn't even know the industry had solved all the problems they were having getting a reliable AR based 308!

Quote

iffen it is a DPMS supplied item then what difference does it make who supplies it so long as it actually ships?

None, unless you like to pay more then you have to... I mean it's the same product... not like buying a Taurus because you don't want to pay more for a S&W... $:-\$

backstrap · « **Reply #50 on:** December 04, 2008, 08:34:13 AM »

I would buy from rguns again in a second, bought my first complete DPMS lower from them it was at my ffl delear in 4 days. i didnt have any trouble out of them

Totenkopf · « **Reply #51 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:27:22 PM »

Graybeard, not sure what you're after, if I followed this one right you have a complete lower w/ colapsable buttstock and looking for maybe a buis setup?
Give this one a look.
http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_bu_16ds4.html
They are made by double star, I own one, they are great rifles. They are totally mil spec with even the m-4 cuts for reliable feeding. Most $700 and under uppers are not mil spec. Meaning they are using lesser grade barrels, not providing corrosion resistance under gas block and usually not putting the newest design m-4 feed ramps on them. Not knocking anybodies favored brand, no doubt most likely they will outlast us all. I just like the best I can get for the price since I don't have a lot to throw away. Type in double star Ar-15 upper in google and you should get some feedback online on their quality.