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Offline SouthernByGrace

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Yankee Myth # 3
« on: November 30, 2008, 07:44:42 AM »
YANKEE MYTH # 3
We (Southerners) are Better Off Because We Lost The War

   There is perhaps no other Yankee myth that brings more anger to the Southern heart than does this one - especially when we know the truth of our colonial existence and when we meet with a "fellow" Southerner who like a puppet having his strings pulled salivates on cue this Yankee propaganda line, "Yes, but you know we are better off since we lost the war." How do we uncondition an individual who has, for an entire lifetime, accepted the Yankee myth of history?

   The loss of political rights and the loss of our Constitutional Republic can be covered at a later time, as they are subjects unto themselves. But I will review a very small portion of the economic consequence of our failure to maintain our independence.

   An idea of the human loss of a war that we did not start, we did not want, but we could not avoid is demonstrated by the fact that in the first year after the war the state of Mississippi allotted one-fifth of its revenues for the purchase of artificial arms and legs. The enduring economic impact is demonstrated by the fact that it was not until 1911 that the taxable assets of the state of Georgia surpassed their value of 1860. The state of Louisiana lost $170,000,000 in slave property. Now remember, pious Yankee and Southern Scalawag, the Northern slave owner had been very careful to liquidate his investment in his slave property before allowing for emancipation. Let us not also forget that it was the rich Northern merchants who STILL held the profits from the sale of these very same slaves! In Louisiana at the beginning of the war there were 1,200 operating sugar mills. By the end of the war there were ONLY 180 mills left. As a direct result of the war, at least one-half of the cattle, pigs, sheep, mules and horses had disappeared from the state of Louisiana alone. The percentage was even higher in other Southern states. Remember folks, they couldn't run down to the local Piggly Wiggly and buy the meat they needed, whenever they wanted to, they had to raise it, if they ate it.

   In 1961 (the 100th anniversary of the war) LIFE magazine published a one-page overview of the economic loss experienced by the South as a direct result of the war. Shortly after the war ended, Yankee speculators chartered special trains to come down South where they were able to buy over 50 Million acres of prime Southern virgin forest for as little as 50 cents an acre! Because the North completely controlled the United States Government, they were able to raise high protective tariffs for Northern manufactured goods while Southern cotton was left Unprotected.The price of cotton dropped to an all-time low. Three years after the close of the war, Northern-controlled Congress levied a special tax on cotton. This tax cost the already struggling Southern economy approximately $70,000,000 in three years! The effect of the exploitation of the post-war South is demonstrated by the fact that ten years after the end if the war more than 60% of the town of Greenville, Mississippi was sold at the sheriff's auction for delinquent taxes! In Sumpter County, Georgia, Dr. David Bagley's 1860 net worth was $18,000, a hefty sum for that day. After enduring the devastating effect of Yankee invasion, conquest, and occupation, his 1870 net worth was only $900.

   The ever persistent Yankee myth-maker would have us believe that even if this were true, "It all happened long ago and is no longer relevant to us today." Yet the death, destruction, and poverty that is our legacy from the United States government placed us in a permanent secondary economic class. The South, at worst, was forced from a position of plenty to one of peonage. At best, we were transformed into second-class citizens of the U.S. economy.

   Both Black and White Southerners suffered as a result of our second-class economic status. Forrest McDonald and Grady McWhiney, in an article entitled "The South from Self-Sufficiency to Peonage," described this demeaning situation: 
Tenancy and sharecropping reduced most white farmers to a system of peonage... Not one in a hundred makes a crop now without mortgaging for his year's support and supplies... burdened by debts, tenants were essentially fixed to the soil... During the late Antebellum period, 80% or more of the farms in the Lower South were operated by owners. During the post - antebellum period this figure declined steadily until, in 1930, more than one million White Families and nearly 700,000 Black Families were tenants. In that year only 37% of Southern farms were fully owned by their operators, and most of those were heavily mortgaged.

   The 1960 U.S. Census provides another example of how the effects of the war remain with the South. The per capita income for all the states in the Union was given. Not a single Southern state appeared in the top 50% ! At a time when the North was preparing to celebrate the centennial of its glorious victory in the "Civil War," the South was STILL reeling from the economic impact of Yankee aggression. In 1980, the United States Census Bureau found that the poverty rate for the South was 20% higher than the nation as a whole. ALL of the states with the highest poverty levels were in the South, whereas ALL the states with the lowest poverty rates were in the North.

One nation with justice for all?     Not if you speak with a Southern accent !!!
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Gary G

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 08:24:47 AM »
My friend who is a history teacher showed me a quote by General Lee made after the surrender that essentially said that had he know that his soldiers, and the people of the south, would be treated so badly that he would have never surrendered. He would have simply sent his soldiers home to fight a guerrilla war.

Not only did the South lose their livelihood, they lost freedom and liberty. So did the North. Lincoln was the Father of big government. It began with him. This letter from Lord Acton tells it all:

Lord Acton, author of that famous quote about government: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." In his private correspondence with Confederate General Robert E. Lee, Acton said:

    I saw in States' Rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy . . . I deemed that you [i.e., Lee] were fighting the battles of our liberty, our progress, and our civilization; and I mourn for the stake which was lost at Richmond more deeply than I rejoice over that which was saved at Waterloo.


Who was Lord Acton? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dalberg-Acton,_1st_Baron_Acton
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline Gary G

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 08:45:02 AM »
Here is a story told me by my great uncle and told him by his grandfather who survived the war:
 
When the Negroes were freed, many of them had no way to make a living and some turned to robbery and killing. After grandpas return from Virginia, they gathered what little corn that was planted. He and a neighbor took it in a wagon to Chattanooga to be ground into meal. On the way back, two Negroes armed with rifles stepped in the road and said that they would take what was in the wagon. Grandpa told them no, that there were women and children at home that were hungry. One of the Negroes said "them we will kill you and take it". Grandpa answered, "Well, since you put it that way, I guess you can have it". He stepped over the wagon seat and lifted a sack up onto the side of the wagon. One Negro lay his rifle on the side of the wagon to take the meal. Grandpa pulled a limbing axe from under the seat and split his head. The other Negro broke and ran. He threw the axe hitting him and then finished him. Next day there was a two liner in the Chattanooga paper: Two Negroes found dead at the bottom of Peavine Ridge. That will probably be the end of the rash of wagon robberies.


Remember Lincoln said they could "root, hog, or die".
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 01:54:18 PM »
These are stories I grew up hearing.
John Wesley Hardin got his start in crime on the Old Israel Road in polk, County Texas by killing a Black his same age, then Killing 5 Union soldiers when they came too get him.
What story do the stories tell?
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 04:22:22 PM »
A great thread SBG - Two thumbs up.

http://www.amazon.com/Such-As-Us-Southern-Thirties/dp/0807841919

Quote
Review
A mule trader, a miner, a chimney sweep, mill hands, sharecroppers, ex-slaves, and small farmers - Southerners enduring the Depression as best they can - talk about their hard-scrabble lives, stunted dreams, and daily chores. What the photographs of Walker Evans portrayed visually, this volume, compiled under the auspices of the Federal Writers' Project in the 1930s, voices. A sequel to These Are Our Lives, published in 1939, this is oral history with the original dialects, colloquialisms, and griefs retained. Income for tenant farmers at this time averaged $312 a year and the opinion expressed by one poor white tenant farmer's wife is echoed by many others: "We seem to move around in circles like the mule that pulls the syrup mill. We are never still but we never get anywhere." The memories reach back to the Civil War and Emancipation, seen from both white and black perspectives ("them Yankees didn't have nothing to give us after they'd freed us"), and the present is keenly felt in the impact of New Deal pro

$312.00 a year in the thirties and my Mother was raising me (by herself with no help from my father) on $ 1200.00 a year in the late 40's, right after the war. When I was first born, in 41 my Aunt Ruth came to live with us and help out my Mom while she worked at Warner Robbins (this was during the war) for $6.00 a week, you got it $312.00 a year. You got it Mom held us together on $6.00 a week and she was able to save 25 cents a month so that she and Aunt Ruth could go to the Moving Pictures once a month, I got in for free, being a baby and all. Such is the truth of life in the South yet I don't ever remember feeling like I was poor, we were all in the same boat in those days. It just goes to show that from 1865 to after the Second World War that the South was in a hole that it could never get out of and we sure as hell weren't well off by any means. I didn't grow up hearing about these stories I lived thru them. My dad's side wasn't any better off as after the war (1865) they lost most all of their land outside of Dublin and they lived in what had been three of the slaves homes, the big house having been burned down by Sherman and his theves. Only one is still standing as I write this and the property is now down to less than 150 acre's. All the brothers left the farm save one Uncle. I guess they didn't want to be known as poor dirt farmers. By the way when my mom and I moved back in with my Uncle Willie he still hadn't put in indoor plumbing. That didn't happen until late 49, almost a year after we got there. Another little fact is that all the kids clothes got passed around, we all wore hand me downs. Shoes were for Church and school, winter and summer.

Such was life growing up in Georgia in the 40's and early 50's.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 04:59:29 PM »
My mom as a young girl. The picture on your left is taken on the front steps of the old home place where we came back to in the late 40's and I was raised. Not sure about the one on the right but to be that dressed up it would have had to be after Church on Sunday.




The time of these pictures would be in the early 1920's
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2008, 06:00:30 PM »
Perfect proof of the point Gw. When most Northerners look at how this STILL effects the South to this day, they are dumbstruck. They never realized such things had happened.
I've been in the insurance industry for more that 20 years. About 15 years ago, I had the distinct pleasure of having an account auditor work with me for a day in the field, where he met customers first-hand and got to see how they lived their day-to-day lives. He was from Ohio and he had only been to the South on one other occasion, passing through the Atlanta International Airport (if you can call that being in the South...) on his way somewhere out West. After a day's worth of meeting and greeting he saw there was no need to continue his audit. On the way back to the office, he remarked that it seemed unusual that the vast majority of my customers were black, and at how well received we both were at each and every home. He had a preconceived notion that blacks and whites in the South didn't get along. That misconception being put to rest, he proceeded to ask me,
"How can you people make these poor things live like they do?"
"What do you mean?", I asked.
"These people live in the worst case poverty situations I've ever seen," he replied.
I immediately lost my temper and blurted out, "WE didn't create these peoples' living conditions, Yankees Did !!!"
Three hours and two pots of coffee later, he left with a TRUE understanding of what I meant. He admitted he was ashamed he had never even considered that the North could have been responsible for such devastation. And to see it first-hand still existing nearly 150 years later made him weep. We are still friends to this day, but he has never accused me of such again...
   I personally know of 6 Black Families not far from my front door that STILL don't have indoor plumbing !! They are all elderly (70+) and refuse to be degraded any further by going to a nursing home where they will most likely be ignored more than they are now. They tell me often that their White friends do more to help them than Blacks in their own community.

On a Much lighter note: (Folks, this story is Absolutely True...and Funny!)
   I personally did not have indoor plumbing until December of 1973 !! Even then, for three years, I wondered what that blasted funny looking pipe was that came out of the wall just above my head in the bathtub!! :D   I literally Branded myself after taking my very first bath in that tub. The house we moved from had fireplaces, which I knew how to operate well, but this "new-fangled" house had electric heaters recessed in the walls. To say I wasn't used to such "technology" would be an Understatement !
I finished my bath and eagerly stepped from the tub, where I proceeded to drip water all over my mama's brand new linoleum floor! Since all prior baths were performed in a "foot-tub" (I was only 7) and I had never once dripped water like that, I immediately grabbed a towel and began to "erase" my mistake in the floor. I hadn't even dried myself, but I knew I'd better dry the floor so nobody would find out. In my desperation, I inadvertently backed my still dripping-wet but into a Glowing Red Heater, causing an immediate "TSHSHSHSH" sound as the front grill on the heater permanently marked me for life. And I will Never live it down, as I was very unable to sit down at school the next day... ;D
I actually had a friend ask me about my scar at my 15 year class reunion and I replied,"Yes, it's still there."
I eventually figured out what that funny looking pipe was for, though... LOL
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2008, 07:00:54 PM »
That was a great story SBG. Yes there were many baths on the back porch (enclosed thank goodness) in that old galvanized Tub. Cooking on a wood/coal burning stove (in the winter) the kitchen was the warmest place in the house. But you know there was a lot of love and life in that old kitchen, many great memories from those days. Alot of great lessions learned about life and how to treat people. I saw alot of people eating at my Uncle's table, black and white, some well off and some not so much. The one that sticks out most in my mind is that of a young man from WWII trying to get home right after the war who was wounded. He showed up at my Uncle's house one night with nothing, asking for a meal, he was invited in and fed. He was then given $50.00 (alot of money to us in 45-46) and we drove him to town and put him on a bus to some town in Miss. My Uncle Willie bought his ticket, such was the way in those days.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2008, 12:41:52 PM »
I don't know   that it was just in the South, however; my mother raised me and my sister and supported my grandmother after my father was killed in WWII,
We made it and this in a small E Texas town. She remained single and i went too college as did my sister--I worked and helped pay my way.
So what is wrong with this, personally I thought it was pretty normal.
Now, while you boys are having a pity party, I would like too point out that much of the Souths problems were brought on by their own obstinate hands and unwillingness too pick up the pieces and move on.
Much of the fault was gains taking by Southerners who were against secession and after the war grabbed most all of the land they could, as they were strongly allied with northern bankers. they then sharecropped the land making tremendous profits. They were commonly called the Bourbons.
I would like too point out that wars make strange bedfellows and many of the South participated in taking advantage of the times.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2008, 02:17:23 PM »
Now, while you boys are having a pity party,

I have to take my hat off to you WL that is, without a doubt, the most disrespectful thing I've ever read by anyone on any post in this Forum. My man you take the cake. I see no reason to answer any of your post anymore.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2008, 06:00:55 PM »
WL, this has gone way beyond disrespectful so I'm about to do the same.
If I get thrown out of this forum, so be it.
If they can let you remain after your asinine remarks, I shouldn't have too much problem staying, I reckon.
But you have GOT to be the biggest IDIOT I've ever seen !!!
And you say you went to college? What did you do, drive by and let 'em throw a diploma in your car?
Did you even read the opening post in this thread? I doubt it very seriously, because you completely IGNORED the multiple citations included in that post, PROVING my point(s) and DISPROVING everything you just said !!!!
Now you're telling us things like the South never paid the tariffs (taxes) even when Gw, lc, Dee, Gary G, Graybeard himself, and I have each given you very documented evidence supporting what we are saying !!!!!!
Even after all the EVIDENCE shown by everybody in this forum, EXCEPT YOU, you still make remarks like Southerners brought these problems on by their own obstinant hands and the unwillingness to pick up the pieces and move on.
I don't think you're capable of comprehending what you read! Assuming you CAN read!

I want to apologize to everybody else in this forum for my un-Christian behavior here tonight, but enough is enough.
I have had it with WL. If I get kicked out for what I've said here tonight, it was good knowing you guys. But I'm sick of this. I've been a gentleman about this, as have you guys, but no more.

WL, if you can't post a reply with some kind of documentation other than your opinion, and stay on topic with it, then you leave me no choice but to put you on ignore. I will pray for you in the coming days.
Y'all pray for me, that I don't bust a gut over this one...
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 04:15:38 AM »
Well boys.
If you find someone that disagrees then the best you can do is call him an idiot for defending his conclusions and the best you can do is bring in myths as proof, and those out of context.
My words were not thrown out they were aimed and they seem too have found the mark.
Your assumption that all you type is correct and that any who would disagree has his head where the sun does not shine is further example of lack of study.
You guys ARE having a pity party. I see nothing at all unchristian about pointing out facts.
Now if you want too have discussion let's have discussion. I bear the brunt of rude remarks without so much as a reference too those who without knowledge use history as so much trash if it disagrees with the party going on.
I don't consider your comment as slander, why consider mine as such?
Get on any mule you can find and lets keep it going. If the heat doesn't get too much for you.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 10:20:13 PM »
SBG please don't bust a gut, a flick of the switch is all it takes to ease the pain, I most certainly will pray for you. Please be so kind as to do the same for me. Your friend, Ron

Now on with the show!! ;D
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 10:41:25 PM »
I'm sure these people didn't think that they were better off, do you?

http://www.loyno.edu/history/journal/1995-6/spivey.htm


During the mid-nineteenth century the Isle Brevelle community continued its economic and social advancement. The community reached an economic peak in the years between 1830 and 1840. <84> In 1830, the colony contained 174 people and owned 276 slaves. The combined land holdings of the Isle Brevelle residents fluctuated between 13,000 and 15,000 acres. <85> The members of the community succeeded in the fulfillment of the Southern dream of land, slaves, and money. This Southern dream, like the Old South, did not continue after the Civil War. After Reconstruction, the Isle Brevelle residents found that "their ruin was complete, since the reactionary political climate of the Redeemer period throttled their economic opportunities. The 'liberation of all men' shackled the people of Isle Brevelle with anonymity; the equality proclaimed by the Union lost for them their special prestige." <86>



Ah yes, this is the story of: Marie Therese dit CoinCoin and her Franco-African children fits this view of history well, because the success achieved by this community of gens de coleur libre is exceptional.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Yankee Myth # 3
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 04:16:42 AM »
Back too the per capita income.
It takes more salary too entice employee's too places like Boston, New York and  other places because of the higher cost of living.
Houston is desireable because of the lower cost of living.
Now if you want too argue please do so with facts in context.
Why would someone in Meridian, Mississippi try and sell a house worth $30,000
for $3 million---cause they can't get it.
Now the same may be said of towns around Los Angeles --- because the market will bear it.
The South has traditionally shunned growth and not sought out large companies who could help in growth.
I say that with actual knowledge. Livingston, Texas didn't want outsiders and sought no growth.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD