No Scope!

[lester]

This may not be the place to talk about this, but what the heck.

I have a Remington M7600 30-06 carbine I bought last year and hunted with.  I agonized over what to put on it for a scope and finally settled on a Nikon Prostaff 2X7.  Biggest reason was the antler restrictions in VT....a legal buck must have at least two points on one side.  So the only chance I have in 10 days hunting is a big 8 - 10 pointer I jump from his bed at about 10 - 15 yards in a blinding snowstorm.  At that range, even at 2X, I never got him in the scope.

Soooo.....I just came in from the garage.  Took the scope off and put a Williams receiver peep sight on.  Unscrewed the aperture and looked thru the rear ring.....just like a ghost ring setup on an M7615.  Can't wait to sight it in this weekend.

BTW, the gun just feels so much lighter and well balanced without the scope.

Anyone have any comments or have experience with a similar setup???

Lester

[1marty]

I know people may disagree but when scoping a deer I keep both eyes open (one of course through the scope) until I get it in the scope. Target acquisition is much faster. It's a trick and old sargant in the marines taught me 40 years ago and it still works.

[Brithunter]

Well it's up to you, sporting aperture sights (peep sights) are good but your problems with the scope seem to stem from not using it correctly, or incorrect mounting. When you mount the rifle to your shoulder the scope should align naturally with your eye, no scruntching down of the stock should be needed and when you look at your target/quarry whilst mounting the rifle to your shoulder the scope should be ready to use with no "hunting" for it. It seems like a classic case of the scope and rifle being wrongly set up  .

Sorry to hear you lost a nice Buck let's hope your solution works out for you  .

[Graybeard]

If you can't get on the game and get off the shot with a scope set at 2x you're sure not gonna with a peep sight. The scope with lower magnification and wide FOV is faster and easier than any peep sight will ever be and far more accurate than open irons and really IF you practice and are used to your rifle it's faster than irons.

[eye shot]

 Try a red dot sight works good up close on running deer with both eyes open--no eye relief. The red dot is also easy to see in a snow storm. Also you still should be able to hit at 100yd with it.

[kyelkhunter3006]

If you use both eyes, there's no contest between the scope and peep sight at close range.  A scope 1x-3x has such a wide field of view that if you can't get on the animal with it and make a shot, a peep isn't going to help you out.  I've tried both and I'm much more accurate with the scope.

If you regulations allow them, the various red dot and other fast aquisition sights would be a better choice for you than a peep, and some of them are so small that you wouldn't even notice it on the gun.  I wouldn't choose one for extreme accuracy, they are very fast, but once I get to 100 yds, a regular x-hair works better for me.

[charles p]

How's your eyesight?  Do you wear bifocals yet?  As your years advance, a low power scope is easier to use than iron sights.

[scootrd]

Just Curious ..

Where in Vermont do you live that you experienced a blinding snowstorm in September? I live in North Eastern VT and we have yet to see any snow accumulation of any sort at the base of Mansfield-  least none in September and only a few instances of snowfall in the latter part of October and into early November? Vermont Rifle Deer Season Nov 15 2008 - Nov 30 2008   5 more days and counting.

[victorcharlie]

At that range I'd probably pick the factory V or Buckhorn style sight.  I missed one with my 45.70 a couple of years ago at very close range because I couldn't get the 1.75 Vari X on him quick enough.

I'd probably pick buck shot in those type conditions but it's not legal here in Tennessee.

[charles p]

I have an old Leupold 1X4 and at 1x or 2X I can see the barrel through the scope - just like you would with iron sights.  It is not a hindrance to fast target acquisition.  Much faster than iron sights.

[eye shot]

Old Redfield Widefield very easy to pick up running game.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm no other input from lester how the sighting in went 

One thing which has crossed my mind is how do others find the Buck horn type rear sights? A couple of my rifles have Williams Guide sights fitted (Factory fitments) and I personally find the shape of the sight vee confusing  the Open shallow Vee of the Express No3 Vee however is much easier to use. I have a couple of rifles with these sights also I just need to get some actual practice in with iron sights  .

[Graybeard]

I hate buckhorn and semi buckhorn sights.

[Brithunter]

As I said I find them confusing and am never quite sure where to place the bead in the notch. Both Parker-Hale and BSA used Williams sights it seems as the rifles with the guide sights on are a BSA CF2 Stutzen, whoops writing this I just realised that my other CF2 also has the guide sight fitted, the other is a Parker-Hale 1100 Lwt that was recenty acquired. Others of the same make have the folding Williams sights that have a different notch profile. Yes I have been looking at them as the proper use of Iron sights seems to be a dissappearing skill and as I have a few rifles that only have their original iron sights and wish to learn to shoot them well 

[Graybeard]

From what I've read of the early development of the buckhorn sight it was intended as a sort of top open peep sight. From that I gather it is or was originally designed to be used same as a peep centering the front in the middle of the more or less circle of the rear.

As you say to me that's rather confusing to do so the way I use them is with the front bead deep down into the notch at bottom of the rear. That makes the wings of the buckhorn hide a lot of the target. I just really don't much care for them.

[Brithunter]

Thank you Graybeard, I had never heard much about the Semi Buckhorn sight, in fact information on the use of iron sights seems to be vey scarce  , I learnt to use the simple irons sights on an old air gun but soon went to a small scope (4x20) when I brought a BSA Meteor .177". It seems that i will ahve to search for soem references in old books. I believe Walter Winnians the noted American shot at Bisley camp in Surrey England wrote some books on shooting but I have only seen the one on Pistol Shooting and not the rifle one that I heard rumours of.

[lester]

Gents -

First, my apologies.  I started this thread and haven't been around much since the middle of October.  Moose season, rifle season, and work have kept me pretty busy the last 6-7 weeks.

First thing, my eyesight is great, 20/10 at distance w/ both eyes.  LASEK surgery 2 years ago was the best $3K my wife ever spent!  2nd, I hunt in Walden, VT.  Scootrd, the blinding snowstorm I was talking about occurred last year during the 2007 VT rifle season.

As for a range report with my Pentax red dot, it went very well.  About six shots to get it dead on at 25 yards, another 4 at 50 to get it 1" high and a couple at 100 yards to confirm.  Used the rest of the box of 20 to snap shoot at ranges from 75 yards in.  Dead nuts......

I guided during moose season so the .30-06 stayed on the rack at camp.  Didn't carry it until rifle deer season that started 15 November.  On 16 November I shot a 145lb 4 pt buck at 20 yards while still hunting.  The Pentax worked as advertised.....I could see he was a shooter with the naked eye, he was facing straight on to me.  I put the dot on his chest and squeezed one off and the 180 grain core-lokt worked it's magic.  I'm hooked.......

Lester

[Brithunter]

Congrats on the Buck 

I did wonder what happened.