What Are the Signs of a Short Throat Issue in a 45-70 Handi ?

[nebrguy]

 Let me begin by saying for a couple years now, several plinking sessions, and a few deer harvested with, my load of late in my 45-70 Handi, is the Rem. 405 gr. JSP over 32 grs. of IMR 4198 for 1350 fps.  I've never had any evidence of problems in any way shooting these.  They're fairly mild, very accurate and very effective. Lightly crimped right behind the shoulder step, the COL is 2.563 ".  The action closes easily on these rounds, with zero resistance, even when closed VERY slowly. You cannot tell any difference in closing with a round in it as when there isn't. Loaded rounds eject smartly into my hand and   bullets show no rifling marks whatsoever.
  Just lately, I have read threads here about 45-70 Handi owners experiencing short chamber throats and running into problems with bigger bullets and /or COL's over 2.55 or even less.  For those issues, what were the tell tale signs ? From what I described about my loads in my rifle,  does it sound very likely I could have this problem, or did I just get lucky with having a longer throat ?  I'll appreciate your opinions. Thanks.

[quickdtoo]

It's no secret that H&R 45-70s generally have short throats, or more to the point, no throat, it's always been a PITA for 45-70 Handi and BC shooters that want to shoot bigger bullets. I have 4 and none of them would load the 405gr Rem JSP seated to the first cannelure, but that's not unusual for it, even factory ammo isn't seated that shallow, same with most other 350gr and bigger bullets. I throat reamed all of them to get around the issue.  I just checked my SS Ultra Hunter, the 405gr Rem is into the lands at 2.263", 350gr Speer 2.683", 400gr Speer 2.501" and the 350gr Hornady 2.491", so it's got the same problem for bigger bullets.

I used Randy Reeves' COL tool to determine COL, it works better and costs less than anyone else's available, there's a link in the FAQs on it. As long as you work the load up with the same COL, even if it's into the lands it's not going to hurt anything as long as you can load and eject an unfired round.

Tim

[phaessler]

Couldn't have said it shorter myself Tim.  I  have used my BC to shot BPCR "unofficially" and have not been able to get a heavy LEAD bullet with a full load of powder. Jacketed bullets and smokeless all load fine if you use the recommended COL. Wether its 300's, 350's, or 405's. But any heavier lead bullets are an issue.   But I did find by using a Badger bore-riding type bullet I can shoot 485gr and 525gr bullets, the exposed bullet is at "land" diameter, and the rest of it is bore dia.  Althought they work and work well, Handi has po'ed more than its fair share of Sharp's shooters here, they are expensive bullets, and only mold makers I know of are NEI. Last I looked the mold was around $150.
Sorry if I got off topic but glad I am not the only one concerned about the throat.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Here's some BIG bore riders, the Craters are Handi friendly. 

Tim

http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20bullets.html

[nebrguy]

Of those  chambers with shortthroatitis, are actions difficult to close without stickiness, some light resistance, etc ?   Rifling marks on bullets ? Extraction / ejection woes ? Other symtoms ? Thanks fellas.

[Chas.]

Here's what I did with my BC.  Someone please tell me if my thinking is incorrect.  

I sized an empty case so that the 405gr. RNFP bullet I was wanting to load, would slide in with slight thumb pressure.  

I then just barely started the bullet in the case.  

I then chambered it and let the lands push the bullet into the case as necessary.  

Then the cartridge was removed and measured.  It measured 2.665.  

So now I assume that I can load it to anything equal to, or less than, 2.665, with that same bullet.  It this process flawed?  

I realize I'll have to go through this process for every type of bullet I intend to load.

[LONGTOM]

Chas, I think your system will work just fine.
Might take a little longer than some other methods but it should yield fine results.


LONGTOM

[dpe.ahoy]

OK.  I'm reaching for the gas can, walking towards the fire, getting ready to pour and....  why doesn't this come up during the 444 vs 45-70 figh, er disCUSSion?  Running wildly away, searching for some place to hide.   DP

[Chas.]

Thanks for the reply, LONGTOM.  I'm not normally a thread hijacker, but I thought if this process was viable, it might also work for others.

[quickdtoo]

There's also a Handi COL tool that can be made from an empty case and a screw by Fred M in the FAQs.

Tim