Author Topic: polygonal rifling?  (Read 1157 times)

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Offline Donna

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polygonal rifling?
« on: August 13, 2003, 04:59:35 AM »
Hello all, :D

I'm trying to find all the information I can on polygonal rifling. If anyone have any information please send it my way.

Donna@aeroballisticsonline.com

Thank you.
Donna :wink:
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20

Offline DonT

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polygonal rifling?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2003, 05:25:21 AM »
Donna,

Try this site...
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm

Also I beleive that the Polygonal rifling was a spin off of the earlier WhitWorth Rifle which used a Hexagonal Rifling for deadly accuracy.  These guns were muzzleloaders and had to be kept clean or they were devilish to reload but with a their heavy bullet (500 grains I beleive), in the right hands, they were very very accurate to ranges unheard of with guns shooting maxi or mini balls and they had excellent penatration.

Hope this helps..
DonT

Offline John Traveler

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polygonal rifling
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2003, 05:35:32 AM »
Hi, Donna!

Polygonal rifling is not new.  It was used in muzzle-loading weapons for centuries before other types of rifling were standardized.  The advantages then were similar to what they are now:  smoother grooves with minimum of sharp eges to conceal fouling and corrosion, easier fabrication, and cleaning (not a factor after modern smokeles power,non-corrosive primers, and jacketed bullets became standard).  The old Metford (English) rifling is a polygonal form, and so was the Japanese Arisaka.  They have grooves that are partial segments of a circle, rather than the pie-shape or trapazoidal shape of Enfield rifling (most commonly used now).  Metford rifling looks worn-out, even when new, because of the absence of sharp, defined lands and grooves.
 
In recently manufactured firearms, polygonal (cold-formed or hammer-forged, but not broached or cut-rifled) is used by H&K of Germany and Glock of Austria.  Their stated advantages were that bullet deformation was less, resulting accuracy better, and with greatly extended barrel life.  This was considered important for automatic fire in military small arms.   The H&K Model 9 and the earliest Glock pistols were of this style.

Advantages to the manufacturer included lower per-unit costs, and rapid fabrication.  The Germans/Austrians of course, pioneered rotary hammer-forging of barrels after WWII, and their machines are top rated.

Glock went to cut-rifling after numerous incidents of bore-leading incidents in their polygonal pistol barrels with resultant "KA-BOOM" blowups.

If I can find my barrel-making reference books, I will scan and send you copies of the articles.  Please provide your emai.

HTH
John
John Traveler

Offline gunnut69

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polygonal rifling?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2003, 08:21:00 AM »
I believe Douglas makes a form of poly rifled barrel today.  If memory serves they call it, 'Ultra rifled".  It uses a smoother shape(a segment of a circle), twisted to produce the spin without lead build up.  Square cornered grove patterns were used in most muzzle loaders because they were easier to fabricate.  Many early barrels were rifled by hand and the cutters produced a single groove at a time.  It wasn;t until the introduction of broach cut rifling that poly rifling forms became easy to make. Also they work much better with a patched ball than the Whitworth rifling pattern.  The Whitworth pattern was used with a fitted bullet and it's use was discontinued because it wasn't appreciably better than standard rifling forms when used with the new Minie pattern bullet.  Also the Minie allowed much easier loading with a fouled weapon.  most Whitworths were used as sniper rifles and not as weapons in pitched CivleWar battles.  Metford rifling was initially used in the Lees along with compressed black powder and when the rifle was switched to cordite it was found the Metford rifling erroded too quickly and a standard rifling form was put into use.  There have been several attempts to use differing rifling forms and most were not overly successful.  The Marlin 'micro-groove' pattern was somewhat of an exception.  It uses many, many small grooves to avoid bullet distortion and promote accuracy.  It to has drawbachs.  It is said to not work well with cast bullets although I have heard that disputed.  It is wise to note though that Marlin drop the micro-groove rifling in the rifles it makes for the cowboy shooting market, whether because the problems with cast bullets were a fact or they simply believed that the perception that such a problem existed was harming sales?????  You contact Douglas barrels, perhaps they may have more info..
gunnut69--
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Offline Paul McC

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Polygonal Rifling
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2003, 01:45:20 PM »
G’day Donna,

I agree with everything that Don T, John Traveler and gunnut69 have mentioned. My personal experience with this type of rifling is restricted to using lead bullets (swaged and cast) in handguns like Glock, H&K, Peter’s Stahle accessory barrels etc, and some early Metford type rifle barrels.

   The only success that I had was with bullets that were interference fit (oversize), and harder than would normally be required in a conventionally rifled barrel; this seemed to apply to very shallow conventional rifling. The addition of a gas check or base washer did not appreciably increase the ability of softer bullets to grip the polygonal or shallow rifling.

Lots of Luck, Paul

Offline Donna

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polygonal rifling?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2003, 10:42:37 AM »
Hello all, :D

Thanks you have given me a lot of good information and resoures.

Donna :wink:
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20