Cleaning of cap and ball revolvers. Dissasemble the inside?

[His lordship.]

Some of the contributors to this site seem to be saying that they completely dissasemble their cap and ball revolvers after shooting, like the whole interior, for example, unscrew the trigger guard/grip frame, then clean the  interior area of the frame with the bolt, pawl, trigger parts, etc.

On my first two Colt replicas, I dissasembled the gun when they were brand new, and coated the interior with vaseline, as I knew that spent powder would get into the inside from the bolt opening below the cylinder and felt that the grease would coat everything.  After several years of shooting I went back in and everything was without rust, but sooty and greasy.  When I bought my 1858 Remington (EMF brand) revolver, I decided to skip applying this greasy stuff and a few years later checked the interior, it was sooty but I don't remember any problems.  Some of the parts are case hardened, which would protect the steel, and of course the brass trigger guard housing is nothing to worry about.

If there are people who really do take the gun completely apart to clean out the mechanics, it seems to me that the threads on the assembly screws would strip out! :?   I had heard of one guy who took off the wooden grips of his 1860 Colt and put it into the dishwasher!

I also used to take out the nipples clean them, and clean out the threads in the cylinder.  On my next cap and ball gun I plan to grease the interior again, and leave the nipples in the cylinder, and just purge it with warm water pressure then dry, spray can oil, etc. to save time.  And use regular black powder cleaner on the barrel and frame.

Anybody take their guns apart all the way and get away with it?  How about a time saving tip that we can all use?  What is the longest time anyone went before cleaning at all, 2 days, 3 days, 4 +, did it rust the gun? :-)

Thanks

[Dan Chamberlain]

Chris;

I do it about once a year!  The rest of the time, I just squirt all the nooks and crannies with a spray lubricant to flush it out!  I get one with the tube and stick it up where I can't see and flush!  Works great.  Normally, when I do finally take things down, I can't find any rust or sooty buildup.  But then I seldom fire more than 25 shots on any given range session.  I suppose if I were tossing 100 balls downrange, I'd probably expect things to be a bit thick in the hammer recess.  I don't think you need to worry that much about the trigger housing.  Not that much stuff can get in there.  Flush it out after cleaning and "fergetaboutit!"

Dan C

[1860]

It depends on how much or how often I'll be using the gun.  If I'm going to use it again in a week or 2, I don't break it down, a month or 2 and the gun comes apart.  Another thing is the number of rounds, after 2-300 it's really dirty in there and it gets broken down.  My 58 Rem is over 25 years old with a large number of rounds through it, other than "holster wear", it's all original and in good shape, I think keeping after the maintenance has helped it stay that way.  Screws and threads last for ever if they are treated correctly.  I've found that a complete breakdown and hand cleaning of the parts takes maybe 25 minutes, a "quick" cleaning of the bore, exterior and the cylinder takes 10-15, not much difference.

For a quick cleaning I use the hand cleaner, GO-JO, without pumis.  It really cuts the crud and leaves some sort of slick film that inhibits corrosion.

1860

[Dan Chamberlain]

Man I've wondered about that stuff!  I've looked at the bottle a thousand times when I've gone to the Rural King store.  Now they have that citrus version that smells good as well.  Now I know.  You are a wealth of information!  Maybe you should write something! :wink:

Dan C

[MOGorilla]

My father always taught me if you shoot em, you clean em.  With one exception, I have always cleaned them completely the day I shot them, even if I was shooting the following day.  One time, I shot on Saturday and cleaned on Monday.  I was shooting in the boonies and had no oportunity to clean.  I was shooting holy black and saw no problems on Monday and I probably put 250 rounds through it on the Saturday.  I am now shooting Clean Shot and am serioiusly rethinking a complete disassembly for each cleaning.  This stuff is amazing.

[howdy doody]

I used to use ballistol a lot. I once in a while would take my C&Bs apart and do a thorough cleaning and and to inspect how the revolvers were doing. I found rust and gummy build up and I decided to try Breakfree once again. I took my remingtons apart recently after about 10 matches and I was surprised to find everything within the frame and all just perfect. No rust no gummy stuff and I am sticking with Breakfree CLP and holding up on Ballistol. I use the stuff just like I did when I shot smokeless, to lube and protect my bores. I also use it on my cylinder pins and have no problems. So, petro product or not, my report is that it works great for me. :-)
I have never understood the dishwasher stuff and all that. Some folks do and that is fine, but I shoot every week and I see no reason for it. I get all the junk with 409 glass cleaner, a toothbrush and Q tips. I then lube well with the Breakfree and am done with them.

[1860]

Dan,

Just so we are on the same page, even though it leaves a film of I think, lanolin, you still have to lube the gun when done.  I've never had a problem with it.  It comes in a tub about twice the size as a can of car wax and looks like diet mayo-(Yuck).  If you let it sit around for a few months it starts to turn into a brown liquid, that's a good thing.  I pilfered a small plastic hand lotion bottle with a pump from the wife and I just pour the brown liquid in it.  Real handy.

1860

[Charlie Detroit]

Go-Jo, huh? Well, that's another one to try...One of the replies in this thread said that the film left is lanolin. I can't remember exactly, but I think I've read, heard, had revealed to me in a vision, whatever, that lanolin is slightly hygroscopic. Don't panic, but try to get some kind of confirmation, one way or the other.
BTW, Remingtons are a piece of cake for assembly/disassembly of the lockwork; Colts are stinkers. That's why I'm using Clear Shot (the GOEX stuff) for my Colt. Seems to work just fine.

[Singing Bear]

I be still using Ballistol, but been recently thinking about going back to using WD40, like I used to.  Never had problems with it.  Ballistol does leave a lot of build up in the action and is way more expensive than WD40, over here anyways.

We shoot only once a month and I completely take down my guns every 4-6 months.  I've left my revolvers for a week without cleaning, both with Ballistol and WD40.  No rust.  I accedently left my shotgun uncleaned for a month.  No rust and the bores are still shiny.  Wouldn't recommend it though.  Btw, I use Goex and Pyrodex on occasion.

I use a Ballistol/water mix for cleaning my rifle and shotgun bores.  Brake cleaner in the rifle action followed by Ballistol or WD40.  I wash my revolvers in warm or hot water only.

All seem to work fine for me.  Your mileage may vary. :-)

[Skeezix]

This is an experience that I hate to admit to.  :oops:   I was sittin on the porch this past Sunday afternoon (a beautiful day up here in northern Missouri) and I decided that I needed to shoot my Old Army Stainless Vaquero.  I hadn't fired it in over two years, and the last time was bustin turtles down at the river on the back of my Dad's farm down in Alabama.  

A couple friends and I had fired about 120 rounds of FFFg Holy Black through it, when a big thundershower came up and we grabbed our gear and hauled butt to the truck.  Something happened that prevented me from cleaning it then, and I just squirted some T/C #13 black powder cleaner down the bore and in the chambers.  It was the stuff they made for a few years that had the same base as the Wonder Lube 1000, with the Ben Gay smell.  I then jammed it in one of those red, silicone impregnated pistol socks, intending to clean it later.

Well, I forgot about it.  In the meantime I moved twice with my job. The pistol spent over a year stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned storage shed.  When I pulled it out of the sock Sunday, to my horror, it was coated with this crusty gray, black, and white crud and had smears of dried bore butter on the top strap and bottom of the frame.  :shock:  :x  :eek:  You couldn't even see down the bore or into the cylinders.  They were full of this same crud that looked like it had grown in there.  My Pappy woulda kicked my butt up over my shoulders.

I just knew that the pistol was ruined.  I pulled out the cylinder, and tapped it on the counter top, and a bunch of the crud broke loose and fell out.  I ran it under hot tap water and most of it dissolved and washed away.  I ran hot water down the barrel and most of it washed right out.  The action was full of crusty primer and powder debris.  I got out an old tooth brush and cleaning gear and went to work.  

End result: NOT A SINGLE PIT, SPOT, MARK, OR ANY OTHER DEGRADATION ANYWHERE ON THE ENTIRE PISTOL !!!!   :grin:  I shot seven cylinders full through it and it was just as accurate as always.  Doesn't appear that my negligence hurt it in any way.  But I know had it been about any other pistol, it would have been reduced to worthless junk.  

I tore it completely down and cleaned it inside and out and I was surprised how little crud was inside it.  I sprayed it down with Rem-Oil, which some of my shootin buddies up here have said is no good, and lubed the moving parts with Rig +P Stainless Grease.  I'll shoot it some more soon and see how it does with this in it.

[Fightin Creek Slim]

TURTLE SHOOTIN :shock:  Well Pard iff'n I didn't know better I would have swore that Gypsy Davy posted that one. :-D

I used to use the ballistol for all my cleaning and general lube needs with my BP revolvers. I still use it in a squirt bottle in between stages at matches to wipe down the fouling from the cylinder pin and cylinder face keeping my Remingtons from locking up.

Now days I'm using Murphy's Oil Soap and hot water for general cleaning. The Stuff smells a lot better than Ballistol, Plus its one more item that I can sneak into the wifes household budget so that it doesn't look like I'm spending so much money on shootin supplies.

Rather than use a petrol based oil I use olive oil  or vegetable oil after I've allowed all gun parts to dry giving my BP guns a good light coating of oil. for storage. I give my BP guns a good cleaning on the same day that I shoot em.

[gunsmither]

Hey there Fightin Creek Slim!  "gunsmither", alias "Chicken Creek Chubby", comin at you here! For the last couple of years I've been using Hoppe's 9 Plus Blackpowder Solvent for all my BP guns with good results. I no longer use hot water, and have had no rust at all. :grin:

For my Cap N' Ball guns, I've just been squirtin the 9 Plus into the action, and using compressed air to blow out the oily crud. Comes out thru all the openings and wipes up real easy. When the 9 Plus dries up it leaves an oil film behind that prevents rust. Once or twice a year I'll break 'em down completely for a thorough cleaning, but it's hardly necessary to do it every time with an air compressor and 9 Plus. :-D

I think the 9 Plus is just water soluble oil with some detergent mixed with water. I find it's very convenient stuff to use for a lazy old coot like me. Safe Shooting! -"gunsmither"  

[Fightin Creek Slim]

Howdy Joe:
I've been trying to get my black powder supplies to the point where i can pick up everything that I need at the grocery store rather than having to buy a bunch of specialiced solvents and stuff. The Hoppe's BP solvent is good stuff though.

[Charlie Detroit]

I think that remark about the Hoppe's being a water-soluble oil may be right...back in The Great War that Army was using that because of the rat-poison priming that was used back then, and it worked pretty well. The water took out the water-soluble salts that would cause corrosion, and that left a film of (more-or-less) protective oil on the surface. I say "more-or-less" because you've gotta wonder how well a water-soluble oil can protect against water.
I know that Dr. 5x (Dutch Schoulz) has recommended a dilute solution of water-soluble oil (cutting fluid) for pre-lubing patches, but I haven't talked to him in a loooong time. I'll e-mail him. Hope he can still see his confuser screen.

[HWooldridge]

I have several Colt replicas and also shoot BP in cartridge revolvers.  On the cap and balls, I can easily shoot 50-75 rounds in a session.  I pull the barrels and cylinders and clean with the hottest water I can get from the faucet with a shot of vinegar and a dab of Dawn soap.  This gets everything spotless then I immediately slather Hoppe's #9 over all surfaces to prevent rust.  This method works great for me and can be completed in 10 minutes or less.  I don't pull the nipples or completely disassemble the frame but I do wipe off the recoil shield and hammer face with a wet rag then same treatment with Hoppes.  I follow the same general procedure with cartridge revolvers plus I dump the cases in straight vinegar then flush with hot water.  This minimizes corrosion on the cases.

[Charlie Detroit]

Well, I emailed Dutch, and not only can he still see well enough to use his confuser, he can still write and make sense, too. What follows is my note to him and his response to me for the edification of all. Excuse any mis-spellings, typo's, etc. that might be in his; I did not feel that I had the right to correct them.
====================================
Hi, Dutch...
   Haven't been online for some time...some of the lads were just talking about how Hoppe's #9 Plus, or whatever it's called, seemed to be a water-soluble oil (in water, of course) and that reminded me of you and your recipe for pre-lubing patches. Are you still recommending that? I always liked the stuff, but was a little unwilling to depend on the cutting fluid to keep moisture off the steel, since it's water-soluble. So I'd use a bunch of WD-40 after that, or PB Blaster. I think these guys now that are all yelling "No petroleum products with BP fouling!" are nuts...the stuff MAY react badly with BP fouling, but you're supposed to take the fouling OUT, remember? THEN use the WD-40. A voice crying in the Wilderness. My wife says the Wilderness wouldn't have me, but that's another matter.
   Pyrodex is weird...I can't really recommend it; if you haven't tried it, consider yourself lucky. It's extremely hard to get the fouling out if you've only fired one or two shots in cold weather, and it forms a protective layer over the rust. Ruined a barrel by not knowing that. Too bad, too...it was a pretty good barrel.
   Clear Shot (by GOEX) is good for a revolver (Colts; Remingtons are so easy to disassemble that it doesn't pay to worry about it) because you don't have to worry about the fouling getting into the guts of your gun. Likewise Clean Shot, but if you're going to load cartridges don't use Clean Shot; it eats the brass.
   Guess that's about it;
               Charlie
======================================
From :    
Dutch Schoultz <dr5x@mindspring.com>  
Subject :    
Re: It's been a while...  
Date :    
Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:29:09 -0500  
   
Hi Charlie, it Has been a while.
Yes I'm still recommending the Dry Lube System, but there has been a
change in that the NAPA Auto Parts cutting oil formula has been changed
to some glycol-based product that just doesn't work well with the
System. The patches dry and will frequently catch fire AND don't help
your accuracy. Quite a few of my subscribers have been using Ballistol
instead of the NAPA product with considerable success.  (See the MUST
READ letter on my web site.)

Ballistol was developed bt the Germans at the beginning of the 20th
century as a rifle cleaning product. The use of water soluble oil or
Ballistol was never intended to protect the steel of your barrel. It
was, if used as suggested, to provide a minimum of lubrication to the
cloth patch. My experiments over a 3 year period showed me that contrary
to popular wisdom, too slick was not good. The ball was long on its way
down range before the powder had done its thing. By limiting the
lubrication the powder can more fully produce its power before the ball
starts to move.

Ballistol is also water soluble and is recommended as an antiseptic and
a wonderful thing to put on bug bites as well.

I agree with you about the alleged nad effect of petroleum products.
What do these people use in their cars and trucks?

After a day shooting, I would use my Moose milk to clean the barrel til
I got clean patches out and then I would put two patches wet with WD-40
on the jag, run that up and down the barrel a few times till I was
certain all surfaces of the bore were coated and then would leave the
ram rod in the barrel with the bore protector sealing (somewhat) the
muzzle and would leave the barrel till next time at the range.

This is what I did the last day I was able to shoot. Took the rifles
home and leaned them against the wall. Five years later I decided to
have a look at the bores and found there was No black stuff, No rust.
This after five years in humid St. Louis.

One of the side effects of the WD-40 practice is that it gets into and
among the the molecules of the steel and in ffact "seasons" the rifle
barrel so the corrosive stuff can't get in there and show up a few days
later on patches as rust or whatever the "Black Stuff" iss.

See my 99.999999% Waterless Rifle Cleaning Methof in the tips section on
my web site.

Incidentally, my old web site froze up 14 months ago and has been
resurrected at:

http://home.mindspring.com/~dr5x/

I have never used Pyrodex. I did see it once when trying to help a
Pyrodex user solve his misfire problems.  I do know it is supposed to be
way more corrosive than Black Powder.

I have never used Clear Shot as that was developed after my failing
vision ended my shooting.
If Clean Shot eats brass I would be inclined to worry about it.  I
understood the Clean Shot is no longer being made. Apparently its still
available.

The new to the US Swiss powder, alleged to be about 10 to 20% more
powerful, is reputed to be very clean with limited fouling. You still
have to clean but its not the mud bath some of the other powders
require.

Tell your Bride that the Wilderness is a wonderful place. Many
inventions are made there by rule breakers.

“Vox Clamantis in Deserto,” Is how you say "A Voice Crying in the
Wilderness" in latin.  Somebody who agreed with my System felt I was
such a person and sent me the Latin saying.

Good talking to you.

Dutch Schoultz
For Tips and Infrequently Asked Questions
http://home.mindspring.com/~dr5x/
A Vitalized Web Site for Easy Downloading
====================================

BTW, Dutch's website is definitely worth a look; he's the guy that used to advertise in Muzzle Blasts to sell his "method" of achieving BP accuracy. It works, too.
           Charlie Detroit