Encore 45/70 and cast

[Bearcat 74]

Guys I am thinking about loading cast bullets in my 45/70 24" and I was curious what your results are in the Encore?  I was thinking of going with a 405 bullet at 1400-1500fps, I was going to go without a gas check, is that a bad idea?  I don't know much about cast, I have read some and I see a lot of bullets claim little to no leading under 1600fps.  This will be a close quarters deer round so I don't need heap'um speed.  I have done the 405 at 2050fps with jacketed bullets..........ouch! 


I am also going to put a peep sight on the gun and I was curious what front post I would need to order from Williams?  Do I just measure with my calipers?


Thanks!

[Gary paugh]

I had to have my barrel throated to be able to shoot 405gr cast, you might do better with 350gr cast.
I shoot gaschecked bullets and they shoot very well.

[Hopalong7]

My Contender barrel chambers and shoot plain base 405's with no problem.  I haven't tried my 18" Encore Katahdin barrel with cast because of the break.  I use a Williams rear peep along with TC's fire sight on the front.  I love that combo.  I have even shot some real black and pure lead in mine.  There is just no limit to the amount of fun you can have with a 45-70.  GOOD SHOOTIN',  Walt 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I shoot a couple of different 45-70's, 2 rifles and 1 contender handgun. I think the speeds you're after are quite easily attainable with non gas checked bullets and very little leading. I would be very surprised if your chamber throat was too short for the 405 gr bullet. IMO that is the "standard" projectile that chamber should be cut for. I shoot 350, 390, 405 and 535 gr postell (bore riding nose) bullets out of my contender handgun bbl. They all chamber with no problems. I mostly shoot real blackpowder out of all my 45-70's now, including the contender handgun. It's very accurate and a real "blast" to shoot.

As long as your bullets fit your bore diameter, and aren't too hard, you should be fine. I assume you are loading commercial hard cast bullets? Those are borderline too hard for the speeds you're after, but they will work. Or are you casting your own bullets? I cast my own usually and unless I'm after some real high speed bullets (all things relative to the 45-70 of course), I usually cast them softer than commercial bullets. My blackpowder bullets are very soft. Too hard will lead as much or more than too soft at your target speeds (1400-1500).

You can test fit a seated bullet in the barrel, without having the bbl on the frame. It should just fall in and seat til the rim goes flush to the breach. If it doesn't, just slowly turn down the seating die in small increments until it does. I very much doubt you will have any troubles at all. Also, you will need to slightly bell the case mouth before seating the bullet in the case to prevent lead shaving. I normally bell enough to get the entire heel of the bullet (up to the first lube ring) into the case before the bullet meets resistance of the case walls. I'm also shooting soft bullets. You will then need to "crimp" the case down again to chamber. Since it's a single shot, I only "crimp" the case enough to just barely flatten the mouth back down to even with the case body. You do not need to crimp the bullets, and you can also ignore the crimp groove in the bullet for the same reason.

Feel free to PM me if you want as I do have some smokeless load data that I think would work quite well for you.

[Bearcat 74]

I don't know anything about casting bullets.  I think it would be something I would like to do, I have read around online about it.  I was looking at Oregon Trail 350gr or 405 gr bullets, the 1400-1500fps was just a number I thought would be a good load an minizime leading.  A friend shoots 405 cast and he says his gun lead bad with anything over 1200fps, he shoots a contender and I see other that shoot lead to 1600 or so with no gas check with no problems.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Sent you a PM, your friend either doesn't have the right powder, or the bullet doesn't match the application. Either too hard, or wrong size for the bore.

[Tn Jim]

Bearcat, I load the 405 grain bullet from Cast Performance in my 24" Encore. It has a gas check and I drive it to 1700-1750 fps using Reloder 7. Recoil off the bench will get your attention, but it's not real bad. I get no leading and 1 1/2" to 2" groups at 100 yards. It could be a little better, the group size is me and not the gun. I set this gun up to hunt hogs with but so far I haven't gotten to try out the terminal performance side yet.

[Bearcat 74]

I liked RL7 from my gun and still have a pound or two that I used for the jacketed bullets.  My set up will be a close quarters deer/hogger gun along with my 336 in .35 Rem.  I have hunted for some hogs in the BSF and have had little luck finding any. 

[Camp Cook]

H322 is my powder of choice for 300gr to 550gr cast and jacketed bullets when reloading for my Marlin & T/C Contender carbine 45-70's.

In an Encore you will very easily reach the velocities that you are looking for.

I just read an article written by he whose name must not be mentioned stating that T/C does not throat their 45-70 barrels and getting them throated properly will definately help.

I plan on sending my T/C 45-70 barrel in and getting a throat machined in I have been wondering why my groups open up past 150 yards and this may be the reason.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I find that nearly impossible to believe. My factory 14" brake'd barrel has a proper throat straight from TC.

Sounds like fantasy/science fiction to me.

Or a guy who's trying to sell "throat jobs" to the unsuspecting public.

Just my 2 cents.