Author Topic: Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ sabots (Read 2087 times)

Varmint Hunter · « **on:** October 18, 2008, 10:36:56 AM »

I have been shooting the T/C 250gr ShockWaves with the regular black sabot in my 209x50 ProHunter. They are a bit snug but can be run down to the powder in a single stroke. Accuracy is good.

The other day I broke down and bought some of the Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ (boattail) bullets. Using all of my strength (within reason) I could not get the TMZ more than 1/2" into the muzzle. I had to pull the breech plug and knock it back out with my range rod. It was even tight getting it back out the fraction of an inch.

I've heard that they may be tight in T/C muzleloaders but this is ridiculous. Anyone else experience this problem?

liv2hunt · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2008, 03:23:58 PM »

Varmint Hunter-
As a matter a fact, I went to the range last week with the exact same sabots (Shockwave 250 gr. bonded sabots and Barnes Expander Spitfire TMZ 250 gr. sabots). Both were very snug to load, Shockwave sabots more so, but not ridiculously hard to get down the barrel like you experienced. Both performed very well in my T/C ProHunter 209x50. I plan on returning to the range once the wind calms down to finish my testing. I will post my results. Why would your ML be that much different to load than mine using the same ammo?

liv2hunt

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2008, 01:19:58 PM »

Tighter bore I guess.

I emailed Barnes and explained the problem to them. They said to contact MMP for a solution. I called MMP 870-741-5019 who suggested using their (new) 3 petal HPH 3P-EZ sabot. They sell a bag of 50 direct for $10 delivered to the door.

The Barnes TMZ in the MMP sabot is about .005" less in diameter. You can load them using one finger hooked over the top of the ram rod. I haven't shot them yet so I don't know if they'll be accurate. They seem a bit too loose to me.

For the heck of it - I took a yellow T/C EZ Glide sabot off of one of their projectiles and tried it with the Barnes TMZ bullet. As Far as diameter is concerned, It fits roughly between the Barnes original sabot and the MMP 3P-EZ sabot. This combo may prove to be the best option of the three. We'll see.

Lastly - At home I tried the original Barnes one last time. I started with a squeeky clean and lubricated bore. I was able to get the Barnes TMZ down the bore with considerable pressure but I am quite sure that with a shot or two of fouling it would be a NO-GO with the Barnes & their originally supplied sabot.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2008, 09:12:53 AM »

UPDATE:

I shot the Barnes TMZ with the new MMP 3P-EZ sabots that I received in the mail. They loaded very easily and shot very poorly. Some bullets were not even on the paper @ 200yds.

I also tried the TMZ with the T/C Super-Glide sabot that came with the T/C ShockWaves. I shot 4 TMZ's - 3 were in a 4.5" group (@ 200yds) and the fourth was about 1 foot low of the group

!

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2008, 11:22:21 AM »

As long as the three in the 4.5" group were fired consecutively, I wouldn't worry about the 4th. How many times are you going to shoot and reload 4 times in a row at an animal anyway? 1 shot is good, 2 shots is ok, 3 shots mean trouble, 4 shots is a lost cause.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2008, 02:07:04 PM »

It was not an issue of the rifle heating up or getting fouled. The low impact was actually the second shot (of this string) and landed on a black area of the target which I couldn't see from the bench. I fired two more to get a 3-shot group before retrieving the target. That's when I noticed the low shot.

One thing I forgot to mention - I chronographed the 250gr TMZ's & a 82.5gr weighed charge of BlackHorn 209, which is about 120gr V measurement. Using the original Barnes sabot the bullets registered 2,015 ft/sec. Using the MMP 3P-EZ the velocity dropped by 40 ft/sec.

I need to try the TMZ's again with the T/C Super Glide sabots to get a better idea of the potential accuracy with this combo. If I could RELIABLY shoot a 4.5" group @ 200yds this would still make a decent whitetail load, not exciting but sufficient.

All in all, the 250gr Shockwave in its original sabot shoots better.

Quote from: kyelkhunter3006 on October 24, 2008, 11:22:21 AM

As long as the three in the 4.5" group were fired consecutively, I wouldn't worry about the 4th. How many times are you going to shoot and reload 4 times in a row at an animal anyway? 1 shot is good, 2 shots is ok, 3 shots mean trouble, 4 shots is a lost cause.

liv2hunt · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:08:07 PM »

Varmint Hunter- What size groups are you experiencing with the Shockwave 250 gr. ammo at 100 yds.? Are they the bonded Shockwaves? What powder/charge and primers are you using? I'm going this week to the range with the same ammo and gun and would like to use your experience as a guide. Thanks.

liv2hunt

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2008, 06:06:36 AM »

I have shot the original ShockWave with standard sabot using 100gr V - 110gr V - 120gr V charges of BlackHorn 209 using a CCI 209M primer. Accuracy seemed to be the same regardless of charge weight which is rather unusual. Most shooters seem to get better accuracy with the 100grV charges.
Point of impact changed noticeably with the different charge weights.

The best group I shot was with the 120gr V charge which produced a 2" group @ 200yds. Groups of 1"-2" @ 100yds were easy to do.

I have both "bonded" ShockWaves and Super-Glide ShockWaves but haven't gotten to testing either one yet. I got a bit distracted with the Barnes TMZ which I am trying to find a good combo for. I believe the TMZ will have the best terminal performance over distance and that is important to me. However, if I can't get them to shoot accurately then their terminal performance won't matter much.

Quote from: liv2hunt on October 24, 2008, 05:08:07 PM

Varmint Hunter- What size groups are you experiencing with the Shockwave 250 gr. ammo at 100 yds.? Are they the bonded Shockwaves? What powder/charge and primers are you using? I'm going this week to the range with the same ammo and gun and would like to use your experience as a guide. Thanks.

liv2hunt

liv2hunt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2008, 01:25:35 PM »

I'm with you, Varmint Hunter. I too would like to use the 250gr. Barnes Expander TMZ bullets and I'm also in the process of testing them along with the Shockwave Bonded 250gr. bullet and standard sabot. Your results are promising and I can only hope to have the same. I use the Barnes Expander Tipped slug in my 20 ga. slug barrel and its extremely accurate and deadly; producing very large wound channels. That's what drew me to them for my muzzleloader.

I'm committed to T7 for this hunting season b/c I made a considerable investment in the powder, but will keep your load stats on file for future consideration. It seems that Blackhorn is the craze right now with great results. Good luck to you in your quest for finding a load that suits your needs. I'll keep you posted on my results. Thanks

liv2hunt

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2008, 04:18:14 PM »

WARPhEAGLE · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2008, 03:51:41 PM »

I started using the TMZ spitfires recently, too. One thing that I found to help with loading and also with accuracy is the Spin-jag made by Proclean, I believe. I saw Russell Lynch explaining about this at a deer hunter's show and to me it made sense. It is a handy tool that not only makes the spitfires load easier, but it also helped my groups.

lefteye · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2008, 04:05:11 PM »

I had to pound the TMZ sabots down my Triumph. I tried them twice and gave the rest away. I went with the 250 Shockwave, Superglide sabot and 100 grains of Blackhorn. One nice doe so far.

vinconco · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2008, 03:59:27 AM »

Here is a pic of a 3 shot group at 200 yards I shot using
.50 Spitfire TMZ 290 gr,
BlackMag3 120 gr (V) or 115 (weight) ,
CCI 209, 2000 fps
Knight Long Range Hunter w/ a Bushnell Tactical Elite Mil-Dot scope.
Bi-pod front rest, sandbag rear

I am getting consistant hits on 12" steel at 300 and 350 yards. Being able to dial in come-ups and using reliable range dope really works on long shots. BTW I had to use a BC of .19 (instead of .241 that Barnes claims) to get the come-ups to match the trajectory out to 350 yards.

I'm waiting for the right opportunity (no wind) to try a deer at extended range w/ this combo.

nomosendero · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2008, 05:14:19 AM »

Outstanding!! That Long Range Hunter sure lives up to it's name!! Did you change sabots or use the ones that came with the bullets?

vinconco · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2008, 06:03:28 AM »

These were the sabots that came with the bullets. Barnes has had a couple lots of Spitfire TMZ's go out with the wrong sabot but will replace any of the defective ones.

I will be trying the .50/300 Barnes Original with the MMP orange sabot as soon as conditions improve.

1187VX2 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2008, 07:38:06 AM »

I've had great luck with the TMZ 250 gr for accuracy. But after killing 3 deer with them and seeing the small diameter exit holes, I wouldn't expect much in the way of expansion - not that it mattered with the deer I killed. Although, I am planning to try the Spitfire MZ 245 grain next - maybe that open hollow point will expand and the BC is very much like that of the TMZ