New to me sporterized U.S. Krag

[Curtis]

I picked this up from a friend today.  I was with him almost 20 years ago when he bought it and he said he never fired it.  The bore looks good and the bolt doesn't have any fatigue cracks at the lug.  The guy he bought it from is dead now, so I guess there is little or no chance to find out who did the conversion.  I think they did a good job though.  To me it is a beautiful rifle.  Now to find out how it shoots! 

Curtis

[Siskiyou]

From what I can see in the picture that has to be the most impressive Krag conversion I have seen.

[Mikey]

Curtis - that is one pretty rifle.  Will you please take it out to the range and let us know how it shoots...............Thank you.  Mikey.

[Oldtimer]

Beautiful rifle and a great piece of walnut.  It just begs to be shot.  I have a lot of respect for the cartridge, having used it to take several deer.  You have already covered the critical factor of determining whether there are any fatigue cracks on the locking bolt.  I loaded mine with Schuetzen bullets that were sold under the Albert name and Green Dot for a plinking load and it was more fun than should be allowed by law.  It was a one hole load.  You are a lucky shooter to have such a fine weapon.

[Curtis]

Thanks all for the kind words and comments.  I truly hope this rifle shoots well, because I'm quickly falling in love with it.  I seem to be drawn in by the unusual.  I went by my favorite gun store (I almost typed "fun store" instead of "gun store"......oh well, same thing) this afternoon to get some 30-40, but the spot for it was empty.  Next stop was Bass Pro but they don't carry it.  I may just have to wait until I have dies and brass, but hopefully I can find some factory ammo before then.  I'll be sure to post an update after shooting.

Curtis

[Curtis]

I took some more pictures last night since the first one doesn't show much detail.  I also got some brass and dies on their way from Midway but they won't get here until Feb. 1.  My favorite gun store, Bass Pro and Dicks Sporting good didn't have any 30-40 ammo so I drove 25 miles over to Caddo Mills to Ammo Depot as I knew they would have some.  No time to shoot today though.    Other tasks beckon.

As far as the rifle goes, you can see that the fit is really well done and that action just doesn't look 100+ years old!  The magazine lockout lever was removed to make way for the Redfield peep sight.  That's the only thing that anyone could even come close to say was "bubba'd" and that's a stretch.  I know I'd surely rather have good sights than retaining a useless feature just for nostalgia.

Curtis

[robert4570]

I have to agree , thats one of the best Krag conversions ever.
That stock is almost identical to a Remington 700 BDL's stock.
Regardless , beautiful rifle .

[Spanky]

That is a beautiful rifle.
It deserves to be hunted with.


Spanky

[rockbilly]

Beautiful gun.  I am presently in the process of restoring one back to the original military configuration.  I picked one up with a very good action, but very bad wood, and had planned to do a sporterized job on it, but found another one on AUCTIONARMS with a bad barrel that had great wood, I plan to take the best for each and make a full military model.

After seeing this one, I may re-barrel the action with the bad barrel and see about a sporter job on it.

[Curtis]

rockbilly I like the way you think.  No reason to let a perfectly good action go to waste, and the purists surely can't fault you for sporterizing one if all that is left is the action.  Good luck on your project(s)!!

I need to find a picture of an original U.S. Krag that is good enough to blow up and hang in my gun room.  When I tell people what my rifle once was, I usually just get a blank stare.  A picture would save a lot of explanation.

Curtis

[Curtis]

P.S.  After doing some more reading around the internet on the subject I decided to buy a NO-GO headspace guage from Midway for $19.99 for safety.  I figure it's cheap insurance against the possibility of experiencing a case head separation first hand!  Even a good lookin' rifle can have too much head space. 

Curtis

[Tackleberry]

Very nice rifle!!  Beautiful stock work someone did on a somewhat difficult action to inlet for. 

I have one too that I completed back in 1988.  I bought the rifle in 1979, it had been shortened stock wise by 3 inches while the barrel was cut to 26 inches.

I restocked it in a Fajen Stock (I did the work for better or worse) This is a Left cheedked stock (cause I'm a southpaw), had the barrel trimmed an additional 2 inches to 24 inches and recrowned. The whole sheebang was reblued. This rifle, with it's original barrel, is a superb shooter. I added a Williams rear sight to keep from tapping in to the receiver.

I encourage everyone to preserve uncut examples at all cost!!!. I've even considered restoring this one.

In the meantime enjoy them.  Photos!!!

Reloading for the .30-40 is easy. The .30-40 handles a 200 grain round point bullet very well, as well as 180 grain and even 150 grain bullets. IMR-4350 is my favorite powder to use. The factory load limits you to 180 grain bullets at $24-30 a box.

Dave

[blackpowderbill]

Here is one I restocked back in 86. It was my first gun stock and that shows in the asthetics.  It was sporterized before I got it. The wood started as a slab of birdseye maple. I have wondered if I should prune the bottom of the pistol grip but then decided to leave it as it fits me well and shoots good.

[Curtis]

Tackleberry,
You did a nice job.  My dad was a great wood worker and I have many of his projects (not gun related) hanging on my walls and sitting on my shelves.  I'm glad to hear your rifle is a shooter, I hope mine shoots well.  Thanks for the reloading tips.  On paper I like the 150 grain bullets for their flatter trajectory and I happen to have an unopened box that I bought before I decided I wanted to use even lighter bullets for my 30 Herrett Contender pistol.  Ken Waters wrote favorably of 4350 although I'm tempted to try some IMR-4895 since I have two pounds that I have no other suitable cartridge for.  It may be a little fast, but if it is consistent enough to give good groups I don't care if I take a hit in velocity.  I don't plan on loading any max loads in this rifle at any rate.

blackpowderbill,
Very nice first effort.  About 20 years ago I made a nice ash pistol grip for my Rem 870, but that is the extent of my woodworking other than general carpentry.  Lots of time and patience is required and I have WAY too many hobbies.

Curtis

[Curtis]

Yee haw!  Today was a good day.  It started off like this:




..........and then it got even better (more on that in a sec).

I took my Krag apart this morning because I wanted to clean the inner recesses and check it out thoroughly, not to mention getting to know the rifle a bit better.  I was also curious to see if the person who sporterized it put any markings on the inside of the wood.  I found the markings 1966 and C. Jones in pencil still quite legible.  I'm glad to know the date that it was sporterized, but there are probably a million or so C. Joneses out there.

I found a bit of pitting where the trigger lever fulcrums off the receiver.  The lever itsself also had heavy tool marks so both these surfaces received some stoning until the pitting and tool marks were gone:



At reassembly I checked the headspace with a "no go" gauge and found it to be on the loose side but not what I would consider unsafe.  My brass and dies came during the first part of the week and I had purchased some IMR-4350 Friday evening so I decided to assemble some hand loads.  Next I bore-sighted out the back window.  Well, there was only one thing to do once I had a fully functioning firearm and a fresh batch of ammo.  Of course, who here wouldn't have proceeded to the range at this point? 

I set up on the 50 yd. target since I wasn't sure how I'd do with open sights.  I'll move out to 100 next shooting session.  This was my first experience with a peep sight and I really liked my sight picture.  I had five different loads of powder made up and all of them were about the same accuracy wise.  The 180 grain Remington factory ammo I took along actually shot a bit tighter so I've still got some load development to see what it likes to shoot.  I was using 150 grain bullets so it may just be that it likes heavier bullets.  Anyway, here's how she did:



As far as hunting goes, I'll have to wait for an opportunity to fall into my lap.  Deer hunting in Texas is an expensive proposition and not one I'm set up for.  I have plenty of hunting friends, and my cousin might let me tag along with him next year.  With all the money they have tied up in their hunts I don't want to "horn in".

Curtis

[Tackleberry]

nice group...typical of the Krag's I've seen, and Mine.

Dave

[crow_feather]

I like to shoot 220 grain RN bullets out of mine.  By the way, Brownells has a scope mount for the rifle that doesn't require any drilling or alteration of the rifle.  I have one on my rifle and it will put the 220's inside 1" on a good day.  Last year my wife took a buffalo with this rifle.

[Kragman71]

Congratulations
That's a nice looking rifle that you got,there.
My Krag is sporterized by myself,using the origional stock to save weight.
It's gvien me great service for over 50 years,but never looked as good as yours.
Huber Concepts makes a fine trigger for the Krag.
For Whitetails,I've settled on the 150 grain Hornady Interlock with 41 grains of IMR 3031 powder.42 grains will get 2500 FPS,in a 20 inch barrel,but is pushing the old gal a little.
Good luck
Frank

[Curtis]

Thanks Frank, I really love this rifle especially now that I've shot it.  It is no hot rod, but it has character.

I have almost 3 pounds of 3031 so I'll probably play with it when I've finished exploring the IMR-4350.  I'm only up to 50 grains with it which is 2 under max.  Pressure is very low.

Curtis

[FW Conch]

      Mr Crow Feather, my old eyes can't shoot any open sights so I want to scope my Krag. If I understand you correctly the S & K    base replaces the origional rear sight, requireing a scout scope or LER pistol scope & costs $98.80.  Brownells also offers a Weaver side   mount set up that apparently costs $54.84 & would allow me to use a standard eye relief scope. I know it would be difficult drilling &    tapping the left side of the receivers 110 year old metal but I think I would prefer a standard scope.  I would be very happy to hear from anyone who has done eather of these conversions.    THANKS  JIM

[Curtis]

Ok, I've sent a few hundred round downrange at this point.  As noted before the 150 gn. jacketed sp still don't group well in any load of IMR-4350 I tried so I'll abandon trying to use them.  A max load of IMR-4350 yielded and average of 2700 fps though, pretty impressive if the accuracy had been there.  The best groups so far are the 180 gn. jacketed sp at 45 gn of IMR-4350 which is well below max (49 gn.) in my Lyman 46th edition.  Max velocity is listed (for the 49 gn load) at 2386 fps and I'm averaging 2265 fps so this seems like a good load (accurate and easy on the rifle).  I shot some 220 gn. rn as well, but my notes from that day leave lots to be desired.  I know which load was best, but don't remember if it was better or worse than the 180 gn bullets.  Average velocity for most accurate load of those tested in the 220 gn. was 1986 fps at 0.5 gn below max.

One thing noted, the spire point bullets don't slide up the feed ramp very well if you're slow with the bolt.  A crisp shove though and they go right in.  One other thing I noticed last summer is that these loads really heated up the barrel quickly.  It didn't seem quite as bad yesterday but it was 60 degrees and I only shot ten rounds.  I'm thinking about trying some lead bullets.  Midsouth has Magnus 165 gn .309 dia. $40.94 for 500.  I could do a lot of shooting cheap with those.  Anyone have experience with lead bullets in the Krag?

Thanks,
Curtis

P.S.  I just realized those lead bullets are not gas check.  Can I use them without experiencing excessive leading?  How would I tailor my loads with these to minimize leading?  These will be merely for fun shooting and plinking so if I need to reduce the velocity and use a faster powder, that's no problem.

[Mikey]

Curtis:  I'm going to throw a couple at you here:  the Lyman manuals show both accuracy and factory velocity loads for the 30-40 with the 150 (accuracy load only), 180, 200 and 220 gn slugs and they use a lot of 4350.  But, your loads are 2 gns below the accuracy load (47 gn) and the factory velocity duplication load (47.3 gn), both of which are below max.  Even the accuracy load with the 200 gn slug calls for 47 gn of 4350 and the 220 gn slug accuracy load is with 43 gns of the same.

The same Lyman manual shows cast gas checked loads but if you are not shooting gas checked slugs I would use the Lyman powder selections but keep it to the lower end until you can determine what velocity you can get to without leading.  Bullets in the 165 range can be used with 8-12 gns of Unique, 18-23 gns of 2400,  as well as 4229 and 4198 powders.  Have a ball.  Mikey.

[Curtis]

Thanks Mikey, I think that gives me somewhere to go.  My 46th edition Lyman shows completely different accuracy loads than yours for the 180 and 220 gn, showing both accuracy loads at max charge (49 and 45 respectively).  I really didn't want to max this rifle out, what with its single locking lug and history of stress cracks in that area.  I probably was stressing it with the full house 150s since they were showing higher than book velocity (no pressure signs though).  The highest I went with my 220s was 42 gn (contrary to my previous post which said I was .5 under max........I'll just blame my notes again).

Since your manual shows 180s accuracy load at 47 and the 220s at 43, it looks like I left some unexplored territory that may yield my accuracy load.  On the next batch I'll start where I left off and work up to a half grain above your manual's listed accuracy load for the 180s and 220s in .5 grain increments and see what develops.

Bullets in the 165 range can be used with 8-12 gns of Unique, 18-23 gns of 2400,  as well as 4229 and 4198 powders.

Cool!  I just checked my powder cache and I have Unique, 4227, 4198 as well as a little bit of 2400 to play with.

Have a ball.  Mikey.

That's the only certainty here!

Thanks,
Curtis

[Troyboy]

Man that is a really nice conversion. I'd be real proud of that one

[Curtis]

I'd be real proud of that one

Oh, I am .........very proud.  Nearly every time I take it to the gun range it is an instant conversation starter.  Thanks for the compliment.

Curtis

[Mike Britton]

Beautiful gun.  I am presently in the process of restoring one back to the original military configuration.  I picked one up with a very good action, but very bad wood, and had planned to do a sporterized job on it, but found another one on AUCTIONARMS with a bad barrel that had great wood, I plan to take the best for each and make a full military model.

After seeing this one, I may re-barrel the action with the bad barrel and see about a sporter job on it.

My Krag sporter has a barrel from an'03A3 in it. Don't know who did it, but I think there is a comment about it in Frank DeHass's book on bolt action rifles. It's a good shooter.

[Frank46]

Curtis, beautiful krag sporter. I'm jealous. Cast bullets in the krag can be lots of fun. I would strongly suggest you slug your barrel to see what the actual bore dimensions are. You just might be suprised. They may not be the standard .308 that is more or less the standard for the 30 caliber cartridges we all are familiar with. If you are considering cast bullets, thats the first piece of information you should have. Once you know what those dimensions are you can shop around at various dealers in cast bullets and try and get one that is about .002 over your dimensions. Example, my Finnish moisin nagant model 27 slugs out at .3115 and I use the lyman #314299. The sized bullet diameter is .3135 and shoots great. If you want more info on cast bullets
try this website. castboolits@gunloads.com. Great bunch of folks over there and extremely knowledgeable on
just about any firearm that can shoot cast bullets. Frank

[bilmac]

I killed my second deer, first with my own rifle with a Krag. If I remember my history, Teddy wouldn't go to Cuba unless the Gvt found some Krags for his troops. Almost all the other outfits were using trapdoors and the blackpowder smoke made them easy to pick off by Spaniards using mausers. One of the reasons the Army chose the Krag for a while is that the big old magazine mouth made it easy to dump in loose cartridges. They soon decided to go with the mauser system too though. If Teddy thought it was a good one that ought to be good enough reason for any hunter to favor it too.

[Curtis]

beautiful krag sporter. I'm jealous. Cast bullets in the krag can be lots of fun. I would strongly suggest you slug your barrel to see what the actual bore dimensions are.

Frank, thanks for the compliments and the cast bullet advise.  I've seen the slugging kits and wondered how necessary they are.  I guess to get the best accuracy you have to go "by the numbers".  I'll get one before I proceed.

If Teddy thought it was a good one that ought to be good enough reason for any hunter to favor it too.

bilmac this Krag is the only "high powered" rifle I own so if I ever hunt deer sized game with a long gun it would be this or a shotgun slug.  My first preference would be my Contender pistol though.  I've got a couple of calibers for it that are knocking on the heels of the 30-40 as far as range and killing power.  However, I'm sure I'd be able to hold more steady with the long gun.  One of these days I'm sure I'll get my chance to hunt with her.

Curtis

[kevin.303]

well i'm drooling! i love krags, been toying with the notion of building something identical, but the cost is kind of prohibitive, given that if i search hard enough i could probably find a nice one like that for cheaper. is there anyplace in the on the net where i should look? i live in canad, but for a nice peice i would go through the BS of importing.