Author Topic: 209x50 pistol  (Read 1020 times)

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Offline b44mag

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209x50 pistol
« on: July 28, 2008, 06:13:04 AM »
im getting a 15'' 209x50 for my encore frame to hunt with. can anyone give me some info on loads for deer . i have a bunch of 777 2f and the tc 240s with the black sabots . also have a bunch of 295s with the green base on them. any info would be a great help. is this setup going to work out to 100 yards. boy i hope so.  ???

Offline b44mag

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 12:43:23 PM »
did i word this wrong  ??? ??? ???

Offline Keith L

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 01:12:20 PM »
I was waiting for someone who has one to respond.  My BP pistol for hunting is a .54 Scout with a somewhat shorter barrel.  I did cronograph several loads, and decided that it is better for under 50 yard shots.  There are differences: shorter barrel, larger slug.  I don't recall what the exact results were and I am nowhere near the gun or my log for it.  I suggest you shoot and cronograph your pet loads and then use one of the programs to decide what they will be doing out to 100 yards. 

Also for me here in Wisconsin you can't use telescopic sights with magnification, and at 100 yards I am lucky to hit anything with a pistol and open sights.

I hope you get some answers because I am interested as well.
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Offline nilescoyote

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 11:56:11 PM »
I had one a few years ago, just used t/c black sabots with .430 240 grain XTP bullets and loaded with 777 at 80 grains. I zeroed at 75 yards with that load but never took a deer over 40 yards with it. When the pointed hornady sst sabot came out I tried them however I think the velocity was lacking as the deer I shoot at 18 yards trotted off, he went down after traveling 50+ yards, never acting like he was injured. Upon dressing that deer I found very little damage and no recovered bullet. Small entry wound and exit wound, I don't think that the bullet ever expanded. So I went back to the hollow point and never looked back. I never cronoed my loads as I figured the sabot would mess up the results.

I liked the 15 inch barrel but decided to go with a 20" barrel if found 3 years ago and sold the 15"

My advice is to just try different power charges from 70 grains up to 100 and see what gives you the best accuracy, I would also use hollow point pistol bullets as these will always open up, zero at 75 yards and you will be a couple inches high at 50 and a couple low at 100.

Offline yooper77

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 03:21:30 AM »
I use 2 Pyrodex pellets and 240 grain Hornady XTP sabot bullets with excellent 100 yard accuracy.

If you don't already, download these manuals they have helpful load data.  You will have to rename them, but they are different manuals.

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Encore_Muzzleloader_Manual.pdf
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Encore_Muzzleloader_Manual.pdf

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Offline Rog

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 04:10:04 AM »
I don't currently own a 209x50 Encore ML pistol, but that will change soon, as I plan on getting another barrel in this caliber.

I used to own a T/C Custom Shop stainless 15" bbl and it was very accurate at 100 meters giving 1.250" 3-shot groups using 110 gr. of T7 (ffg) and a T/C 250 gr Shock Wave bullet.  Velocity chrono'd right at 1600 fps or so.

When I get the next ML pistol barrel, I will be trying T7 in the fffg version combined with the T/C 250 gr Shock Wave bullet.  The fffg version of T7 will give more velocity compared to the ffg granulation which will be beneficial in the pistol length barrel.  I will also be trying some of the new Black Horn 209 powder as well.

Also, the sabot that is supplied by T/C is sized for their barrels and in my experience shoots better than the Hornady SST version, which is the exact same bullet, but the sabot supplied by Hornady is sized ~ 0.002-0.003" larger.  I called and confirmed this via telephone, plus my own measurements of the sabots proved this to be the case.  I had noticed that the Hornady version was harder to load and didn't shoot quite as good..... (even though the sabots are sourced from the same place, they are sized differently per Hornady....)

If you are shooting one of these ML pistol barrels and using loads of 80 grains or so, then your muzzle velocity is most likely on the low side and thus bullet expansion is gonna be compromised.

These ML pistols when loaded up to 110 grains or so should give ballistics that are slightly better than a 44 mag revolver and tread hot on the heals of a 454 Casull.  Should give ~ 150 yds or so capability on whitetails assuming an accurate load is found, when using the pointed tip bullets such as the Hdy SST or the T/C Shock Wave.

Put a Burris 2x-7x scope on one (or your favorite scope) and should make a quite capable whitetail rig.


Offline b44mag

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 05:10:13 AM »
thanks for the info guys i think im going to start at 70 and work up from there. i have a bushnell trophy red dot with the 4 diff. reticals 1x28. do you all think it will hold up to the recoil. from what im reading the recoil is not to bad. sight in at 75 sounds good to me . i shot 44 mag for a long time. the 209x50 from what ive read is a bit hotter with 80 grs of 777. so this should be a great deer gun. i cant wait to get it to the range. from what ive read so far these little barrels shoot great hope the one i get dose too. thanks again for the info.
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Offline Rog

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 07:37:25 AM »
I doubt that 80 gr of T7 will be "hotter" than the 44 Mag.

It'll probably take 90+ grains to get better ballistics than the 44 Mag......


Recoil of the 209x50 pistol isn't bad at all.

I would personall site in at 100 yards.  Bullet trajectory will still be pretty flat, and you will be able to shoot at deer over 100 yards without having to worry about holdover.

Offline b44mag

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 11:16:21 AM »
thanks rog i think i will start at 70 to get the feel of it then if i can get good groups go to 100 loose and try two pellets im getting all fired up about this. im in pa the  season starts the 18 of oct. i think im going to use this set up all season then go flintlock after  christmas should be fun thanks again for the info guys helped me out alot
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Offline rickyp

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 03:54:43 PM »
I use 90 grs of goex black powder under a light field Alpha god 300 gr pure lead bullets (or a barned 250 gr copper) and have taken quite a few deer with them I do not shoot more then 60 yards or so. when i do  my part the deer always falls quickly.

I consider this load to be about in the class as a warm 44 magnum or a mild 454 load. shots out to 100 yards  should not be an issue if you can place the bullets.

The real trick is to find a good bullet that expands at the lower speeds.

Offline b44mag

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 04:07:30 PM »
thanks rick i did some searches and you came up in most you left a lot of info out there to be found thanks im going to use this as my goto deer set up
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Offline rickyp

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 04:12:33 PM »
this is my main deer handgun barrel because around me I can only use a muzzle loader handgun. I am trying to change the laws but have little luck.

Let me know if you have any questions. I do have a lot of real world experience with this round. I've taken more deer then I can remember with a 209x50.

Offline banjoman

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 03:03:14 AM »
Try a couple of the new 777mag pellets behind a 240 gr XTP or Hornady 250 gr SST you will be pleased. You may also want to try the 300 gr XTP
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Offline 7-30 Waters

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 02:46:58 PM »
From T/C's website under download manuals.

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Encore_Muzzleloader_Manual.pdf

Go to about page 63 or so for Encore muzzle loader pistol data for all types and weight of bullets.

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Scout_Rifle_and_Pistol_Manual.pdf

This one is for the Scout black powder pistol and rifle

Offline Keith L

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2008, 10:02:09 PM »
Thanks for the links.  I got my Scout without a manual and wondered if TC could supply one.  Now I have a copy.
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Offline skarke

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 12:20:55 AM »
Be forewarned, shooting non-sabot bullets and heavy charges can produce pretty stout recoil.  That wooden grip that came standard gets slippery in the Summertime if your hands are just a little sweaty.  Use care, but I love this barrel.  It's probably my favorite.
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Offline blhof

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 03:47:52 AM »
I don't have the Encore B/p barrel, but I shoot B/p and have several from 45 to 54 cal and the longest ranges are done with the 50 set up with the fast twist for sabots.  I've got it to do consistent 5" groups at 200 yds with an open sight and 100 grains 777.  This is a 23" barrel, so the potential is there.  The groups could be even beter, but changing position to reload, makes exact follow ups difficult, but 5" is still minute of deer at 200yds with 300gr sabots.

Offline Two Bears

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2008, 07:31:55 PM »
I just shot mine for the first time today... I agree that the recoil is stout and that is why I reduced my load to just 50 grains with a T/C 240 grain cheap shot lead bullet, it shot pretty good @ 1 5/8" at 40 yards. The all lead bullet will expand pretty good and the 50 grains of Goex Black Powder should drive it through a deer at less than 50 yards which is longer than any of the deer that I have taken with a muzzleloader as I set up close like a bow hunter.
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Offline Two Bears

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2008, 07:39:14 PM »
Hey guys answer this, Will/does 90 to 100 grains of black powder or substitute powder burn completely in the 15" 209 pistol barrel or will some if it be burning outside the barrel?
Who has done any chrono tests to check velocities out which would indicate full burn rates?
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Offline banjoman

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2008, 10:50:41 AM »
There are a couple relly good post over on the "SPECIALTY PISTOL" site about b/p handguns. A lot of good load info there too. Like I said in a prior post try (2) 777mag pellets behind a good saboted 240 gr pistol bullet.  Those guys are getting really good velocitys and 1-2 inch 100yard groups. Check it out
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Offline rickyp

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Re: 209x50 pistol
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2008, 10:58:48 AM »
since you are intending t hunt with this hand gun You should check with the state, county local and property of a few things.
1) is there a min. load or bullet style you have to use.
2) Can you use this handgun  and what sighting systems.

Laws very widely not only from state to state but county to county and town to town even cert en property regulate what you can use.
some places you can not use a 209 primer system
some you must use open sights
some you can not use a sabot
in MD I must use a min of 40 grs or powder and a 6" barrel